It may come as a surprise to some of you, but I don’t know everything there is to know about LOTRO. (To others, this might be blatantly obvious.) So, following this line of thinking I came to the decision that a line of articles asking you all, our audience what your opinions would be on certain topics. My hope is that we, as a community, could have some good discussions on certain aspects of the game ranging from leveling to end game raiding. I’m also open to people submitting topics to me as well either through the contact page or by emailing me directly.
This Week’s Topic
For those who are listening to the show, you know I’ve been leveling my Captain lately. I currently have the “leveling bug” and this was the class that I chose to play. Now, all my alts are currently sitting at level 50 or higher, which puts the majority of them sitting at the entrance to Moria. It also means that they all have their Legendary Item quests done, both of their LI’s strapped on, and they’re ready to go fight the forces of darkness.
Except that outside of the Guardian Class I don’t know much about Legendary Item Legacies.
Nothing has made that more apparent to me as leveling up Legendary Items for my Captain and blankly staring at the legacies that pop up every time I identify or re-forge one of them. Sure, some of them are pretty obvious as to their benefit (such as decreasing the cooldown of Rallying Cry) , but some of them are for skills that I don’t even have yet.
So the first topic of discussion that I’d like to bring up is:
As a Captain at level 58, what Legendary Item legacies should I currently be considering on my LI’s and which ones should I look out for as I level up?.
I would also like to acknowledge that the Captain’s Round Table that we did a while back does contain information of this kind, which I will most definitely making use of. But I want to see what you all think as well. So leave a comment below and let me know!
Note: I want to thank our Twitter and Facebook communities for providing input on the name for this article! While I couldn’t use them all, I have them all saved for future column ideas! Thank you again!
August 1, 2012 at 1:47 pm
I won’t go into much detail here since I contributed to the panel. With all the decent legacies out there, argument can be found for the inclusion of some and omission of others; however, there is one legacy that is a must and no one will debate: Rally Cry CD on your emblem.
August 1, 2012 at 3:14 pm
I have that one and it really helps a ton. Thanks Imperius for the help.
August 1, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Yes, Rallying Cry Cooldown is the must-have legacy. It is great in groups, it is great solo. Add the trait where Rallying Cry restores some power and you won’t have to worry about power problems much at all.
After that point, I mostly kept legacies that worked for healing; Rallying Cry strength, vocal healing, melee healing. This way if you get invited to a group you don’t have to switch between solo gear and group gear. Some hardcore players keep around multiple sets but with only 6 LI slots and limited bag space it’s too much of a hassle. (ya, I know you can buy more slots)
For damage I do like the +1 target to Pressing Attack. It’s too expensive to spend points on this legacy to increase it further, but going from 2 to 3 targets is a really big help.
I do keep a second weapon for buffing. Put the legacies that increase buff magnitues on that and you won’t have to waste legacies on your main weapon. I only use the ones for Motivating Speech, Relentless Attack, and remaining points into On-Guard (no need for the power regen Focus buff, no one ever asks for it and it’s rather underpowered anyway). I wouldn’t bother spending scrolls to raise the tiers on these, instead find a weapon with one of the buffs already at a decent tier and you’ll have enough points to max two of them easily.
I do not use two emblems. Not worth it. Use the healing one when soloing.
August 1, 2012 at 5:23 pm
I should add that I mostly stick with red traits to do damage, and then 2 blue traits for healing (one of which is the self heal on Muster Courage). The days of being required to have Hands of Healing to join groups is in the past. With these legacies you can do some decent backup healing easily while still doing great DPS (especially later with Draigoch gear with all that might on it). You will make a very noticeable difference in pick-up-groups that have a newcomer healer.
August 2, 2012 at 9:16 am
Thank you tule.
September 21, 2012 at 8:56 pm
Well tule it may be true that the time when HoH was required is over, it is still much like and appreciated in groups, and to say that captain dps is great is a bit much, captain dps is not great nor will it ever be great, great would be a Rune keeper or a champ, i dps to those meant for it and instead do something that i actually can succeed at
May 17, 2013 at 11:24 am
At level 85 many of the 6-mans can be solo or duo-healed by 2 cappies. I run Hands of Healing by default and with 4 Hytbold Healer and 2 Perseverance (Ettens) I have:
- A 6-sec CD Rallying Cry that heals over 4k
- Valiant Strike spam
- 2k heals from Words of Courage.
So I go with (emblem): Rallying Cry Cooldown, Melee Skills Healing, Vocal Skills Healing, Valiant Strike Morale Return, Rallying Cry Healing, Muster Courage Cooldown. If you’re not lucky enough to get 5 majors, drop Valiant Strike Morale Return first and consider either Words of Courage pulses or Time of Need CD.
August 2, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Odd I do focus buff all the time. On raids I give focus to hunters, RK and LM give crit to champ,warden burg gets focus or parry
I give self focus in group but crit on solo
I do have seperate LI just for buff do not put settings,gems etc on them movong motivating speach over is not a bad idea
August 1, 2012 at 1:47 pm
OK Merric, first thing. When that Cappie gets into instances and raiding, even Grand Stairs, you’ll find that you’ll need two weapons and two emblems at all times.
Weapons: One is your fighting stick and the killer legs are: pressing attack crit, devastating blow crit, telling mark and either Routing Cry or Blade of Elendil. Minor legacies to taste.. usually the power usage reduction ones. Your buff stick needs crit and parry buffs and Motivating Speech. Don’t even use points on anything else, as that weapon you only equip when throwing out buffs.
Emblems: Your primary has all the healing stuff like Rallying Cry healing and cooldown, Strength of Will healing, Valiant Strike (will be more useful now), and either vocal or melee skills healing. Other legs to taste, again I favor the ones that save on power. Your buffing emblem is only for the power buff, called “Focus”.. Kind of a waste to take up a LI slot for one leg.. and frankly now that we have Song Brother, I use it less and less, throwing parry buffs on the hunters and tanks, and Crits on everyone else.
Someone else will have thought of something I’ve forgotten, but that is a good basic look at the thing.
August 1, 2012 at 3:19 pm
I totally forgot about the buff sticks! Thank you
August 1, 2012 at 4:13 pm
I don’t follow your logic on some of your recommendations.
You’ve completely left out To Arms duration. I can dig that for a lvl 58 solo captain, but it’s arguably the #1 weapon legacy for group captains (and you began your reply mentioning groups). Fighting multiple mobs, Pressing Attack targets > Pressing attack crits in order of defeat respones & damage produced, so therefore thats the order of importance.
Strength of Will is about to be even more important than it is now, so I’m with you on recommending that. Merric would probably want it on a main emblem; just want to mention to Merric that that legacy is another candidate for a “swap” emblem. Ok back to Narnian. I don’t understand why you recommend VS healing first and then “either vocal or melee skills healing.” Melee skills healing affects both Inspire and VS up to +15% whereas VS healing affects only VS up to 10%. The superiority of melee skills healing over VS healing legacy is clear. If anything, VS healing should be put dead last among the healing legacies, even behind RC healing legacy, based on which heals an HoH captain gets the most mileage out of. I’m also curious why you put parry buffs on hunters? Are you taking it upon yourself to throttle their dps so they don’t pull aggro?
August 1, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Laksones you make great points, especially about vocal skills healing.. I didn’t mention to arms durations, since there are never enough slots for everything, we have to prioritize. But 10 seconds is too short even for the base skill, and it can be a factor in victory. I’d rather petition the Devs to make the skill last for 20 secs.
August 1, 2012 at 2:28 pm
Emblem: Vocal Skills Healing
Melee Skills Healing
Rallying Cry Cooldown
Healing from Rallying Cry
Muster Courage Cooldown
Weapon:
Telling Mark Damage
Melee Skill Power Cost
To Arms Duration
Cry Power Cost
Maximum Targets for Pressing Attack
Keep in mind you also need a weapon for buffs and also emblem for skills with longer cd
August 1, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Excellent, thanks Estendir
August 1, 2012 at 4:15 pm
This is a good recommendation.
August 1, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Since this is a community question, you probably don’t want me writing an entire article in the comments, do you?
Anyway, here’s a link to my captain guide post on the forums (I’m working on posting it here, honest!)
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?454222-Ehefkae-s-Advice-On-Playing-the-Captain-Class&p=6105432
Here’s how my main weapon is built:
Telling Mark Damage*
Pressing Attack Max Targets*
To Arms Duration*
Kick Cooldown*
Blade of Elendil Damage
Cutting Attack Bleed Damage / Defensive Strike Armour Buff (1 of my captains uses the first one, the other uses the second)
Emblem:
Rallying Cry Cooldown*
Vocal Skills Healing*
Melee Skills Healing*
Rallying Cry Healing*
Strength of Will Healing*
Words of Courage Pulses (contemplating swapping that for Shadow’s Lament cd)
For a buff stick, I have Morale from Motivating Speech, Crit and Parry buff. For my buff/swap emblem, I have focus buff and both Time of Need legacies (morale cost and cd). If I were less lazy, I’d also make sure I had Shield of the Dunedain Cooldown and Captain’s Escape from Darkness Cooldown on my swap emblem, too.
August 1, 2012 at 3:20 pm
I would *never ever* discourage you from writing a post.
August 1, 2012 at 3:29 pm
lol – as you see, I couldn’t stop myself ;p
August 1, 2012 at 3:34 pm
LOL, no problem. I’m glad to have passionate people (and that goes for everyone in the comments) talking about what they do.
August 1, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Oops…saw that you mentioned that legacy as being obvious (bad me for skimming through the article ;p). I’ll provide list of legacies and comments next to legacies and state where it should go. ++ = essential / + = good / ~ = avg. – = poor. If I list something as avg. doesn’t mean it is bad per se, just that given the limited number of pts to expend, probably not worth it.
Weapon Major Legacies:
To Arms Duration ++ (main) (could technically be on buff weapon but not practical to switch in and out every minute during a fight. If you can do it then it frees up a major slot on your main)
Kick Cooldown ~ (main) disrupt is good but situational, not worth the investment.
Telling Mark Damage ++ (main) can’t be on buff weapon/doesn’t stick on switch.
Devastating Blow Critical Rating + (main) now with cap raised a good choice. Prob only enough room to choose this or the PA crit below.
Pressing Attack Critical Rating + (main)
Melee Skill Power Cost + (main) reducing power consumption always a good thing, especially in the days of depleted power pools due to might stacking)
Maximum Targets for Pressing Attack + (main)(don’t invest beyond 3 targets, gets too expensive)
Morale from Motivating Speech ++ (buff weapon)
Weapon Minor Legacies:
Cry Power Cost + (main)(reduced power consumption ftw)
Tactics: On Guard Parry Rating Buff ++ (buff weapon)
Tactics: Relentless Attack Critical Rating Buff ++ (buff weapon)
Routing Cry Damage – doesn’t make the cut and damage is relatively low
Blade of Elendil Damage ++ (main)esp with added buffs created by this skill in RoR.
Cutting Attack Bleed Damage ~/+ (main) I have this now but might opt for Make haste duration. Love the slow on cutting attack but not sure if the added bleed damage is significant. If someone has number crunched I would love to hear about it
Defensive Strike Armour Buff – doesn’t make cut – statistically I’ve heard the bonuses are not stellar. Again if someone has number crunched let me know
Make Haste Duration + particularly good in Moors to counter balance slows or to catch creeps. Good overall in helping party speed and added 15 seconds is a sizable difference.
Captain Emblem Major Legacies
Tactics: Focus in-Combat Power Regen Buff ~ (alternate emblem) usage has diminished significantly.
Healing from Rallying Cry +/++ (main)
Rallying Cry Cooldown +++ (main)(yes I added a third + ;p)
Valiant Strike Morale Return ~/+ (main)(better in HoH as a group hot)
Healing from Strength of Will ~/+ with added SB and BB abilities in RoR more viable)
Vocal Skills Healing ++
Melee Skills Healing +
Words of Courage Power and Morale Cost + (alternate healing emblem)
Captain Emblem Minor Legacies
Time of Need Cooldown + (alternate pvp emblem)*
Captain’s Escape from Darkness Cooldown + (alternate healing emblem)*
Muster Courage Cooldown + (main) (++ if traited for self hot)
Time of Need Morale Cost + (alternate pvp emblem)*
Grave Wound Cooldown – (unless capstone in Leader of Men, then ~/+ due to forced taunt ability)
Shield of Dúnedain Cooldown +(alternate healing emblem)*
Shadow’s Lament Cooldown + main
Words of Courage Pulses + (alternate healing emblem)
*You could also stick all the emblem CD legacies onto one alternate emblem with the tactics: power buff rather than have a PVP and healing emblem..that might be too much of an investment resource wise.
As you can see there are some choices to make. The ++ def. should make the cut, with a large chunk of them requiring alternate LIs. The +/~ legacies are then really a matter of how you play your character and what you envision doing.
August 1, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Wow, thank you very much Imperius.
August 1, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Welcome! Then again this is just one man’s opinion…open to hearing alternate choices
August 1, 2012 at 3:01 pm
I might also add to try and go for 5 majors if you can. The frequency to get 5-6 seems a lot higher than it used to ;p.
This also does not include the new legacies but I gave my opinion on them in your earlier article on captain dev. diaries.
August 1, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Addendum: the + to melee healing and healing from rallying cry should be changed to ++. They are the holy trinity imo (Vocal skills healing / melee skills healing/ Healing from Rallying Cry)
August 1, 2012 at 3:14 pm
strength of will is perfect legacy for backup emblem. as for devastating blow critical rating: this legacy makes you crit twice per hour of constant fight, probably worst legacy ever
August 1, 2012 at 3:27 pm
@Estendir: with added SB and BB abilities with RoR if a cappy is often in groups brothering one other person or using fellowship brother legendary for entire fellowships, this could be on the main imo. As it stands now, it should definitely be relegated to an alternate emblem since it only affects shield brother.
As for your perceptions of DB crit…think it’s debatable. Some like it, some don’t. If you run with the class trait expert attack it becomes less important. As I said, the + legacies are really up to individuals to decide based on equipment, virtues, stats and how they play their captain.
August 1, 2012 at 5:22 pm
Actually I stand corrected. You’re right Estendir, regardless of the brother skill being used, it can still be put on an alternate emblem and switched back…for strength of will in each of its 3 iterations.
August 1, 2012 at 4:05 pm
I’d agree with Narnian and Estendir- Battle LI and a Buff LI. On my Buff emblem, I have the focus buff and also Escape from Darkness. Easy to max those out. It’s a bit tricky but if someone goes down in a fight, swap to the buff emblem, Rez then swap back to the regular emblem. Shaves 10 minutes on the CD.
August 1, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Excellent, thanks Flosiin!
August 1, 2012 at 5:38 pm
I think all cappies agree a major weapon and buff stick are an integral part of playing the class properly.
August 1, 2012 at 4:09 pm
My advice: Have your captain make jewelry and then find a good Captain friend like Hoppy do all the Captain work for you!
/signedtoostupidforcaptains
August 1, 2012 at 4:13 pm
LOL, nice.
August 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Emblem: melee and vocal heals
Rally heal
Rally cd (a must)
Strength of will
Muster Curage cd
Melee
Telling mark (a must for me)
Pressing attack targets(I only go one or two deep) Pressing attack crit To arms
Buff stick
Parry and crit buff
Motivational speech
Buff Emblem
Focus buff
Escape from Darkness (swap to this Emblem right before Rez for extra 10min cd. Then switch back.)
The Blade of El. Damage and the our trait for it- is that a good combo? I haven’t really dug into how that skill performs with or with out the trait. I know it does the corruption removal.
August 1, 2012 at 5:36 pm
With RoR it will also accentuate 3 skills that you hit right after it (see dev. diaries) and I think with defensive strike there’s a power return chance when the BoE bleed is up. All this in addition to it removing corruption. I’m inclined to making my cappy more of a DPS build, maxing out skills like DB crit/ BoE damage /SL cooldown (on emblem) and seeing how he does.
August 1, 2012 at 5:47 pm
well the legacy maxed out gives you +25% and the class trait Adherent of Elendil an added 15%…so that’s 40% more damage plus hitting with BoE adds +20% damage to Shadow’s Lament as of RoR….Max out the CD on Shadow’s lament (-15 secs.) and run 5 deep in the red line to get an additional 50% to damage and that’s +70% damage on the cappy’s biggest damage skill. I’d say you’d have a pretty hard hitting DPS captain there
August 1, 2012 at 5:03 pm
If I were leveling another captain and were grouping at lvl 58, I would basically do what Ketani and some others suggested.
If I were purely soloing, I would create a main weapon that would be constantly swapped out for higher level ones, a main emblem, and a rudimentary buff weapon.
Main weapon legs, in order of importance:
Pressing Attack Targets (major)
Melee Power Cost (major)
Blade of Elendil damage (minor)
Cutting Attack damage (minor)
PA or DB crit (major)
random 6th. Probably time to upgrade to a new weapon anyway. Use reveal mark while you solo for best survivability.
Main emblem legs, in order of importance. I’d place more importance on getting the right emblem than the right weapon if I were to solo up from 58:
RC cooldown (major)
Shadow’s Lament cooldown (minor)
Vocal skills healing (major)
Its hard for me to rank the next 3. All can increase self heals
Muster Courage cooldown (minor)
Rally Cry healing (major)
Melee skills healing (major)
6th, whatevs
Buffstick
Crit tactics
motivating speech
anything else is lagniappe.
August 2, 2012 at 4:18 am
This is Argendauss. I don’t know why I typed in my Google account name in replying to this pot, but typed in my Captain’s name in replying to the post on the dev diary.
August 2, 2012 at 9:18 am
Thanks Argendauss! I do spend most of my time soloing so this helps.
August 1, 2012 at 5:41 pm
How about Legendary traits? I’m usually traited HoH and run solo to 6 main. I have IDOME, HoH capstone and Fellowship’s brother.
August 1, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Depends what you’re doing. Recently in T2 Isengard raids I’ve been HoH with Oathbreakers, IDOME and blue capstone. Though typically I will run Fellowship brother, raid leader requires burst dps so go with OB instead. There is argument for removing IDOME though ( a lengthy discussion on the merits of IDOME in the current landscape was discussed on the round table).
When I solo, I’m Lead the Charge with IDOME, Master of War and Oathbreakers.
If I’m raiding or in small groups in the Moors I’ll go mixed class traits with IDOME, Oathbreakers and bubble (Shield of the Dunedain).
Really depends what I’m doing…
August 1, 2012 at 7:02 pm
While I can’t speak to this topic since my cappy is at 35, I do like the idea behind the article and look forward to seeing the new topics you come up with. Good job Merric!
August 2, 2012 at 9:18 am
Thanks Andang
August 1, 2012 at 9:33 pm
At level 58, you probably won’t have too much time while leveling to max out more than a couple legacies on each item.
You can probably stretch out your emblem longer, especially if you go for a 1st ager at level 60. Make sure it has Rallying Cry cooldown and throw all your points into that legacy.
Another useful emblem legacy for soloing is Shadow’s Lament cooldown. The Master of War legendary trait (the red capstone) enables you to use Shadow’s Lament without a defeat response, and when it hits it opens up Pressing Attack/Devastating blow. This does wonders for your personal dps since you get to use your most damaging attacks more often, and you have more chances to crit with Pressing Attack and open up defeat responses.
You will probably run 5-red 95% of the time while solo (and much of the time grouped too). The Shadow’s Lament cooldown legacy reduces the cooldown from 45s to 30s, so it gives a good bang for the buck.
So, I recommend you make a personal soloing emblem with Rallying Cry cooldown and Shadow’s lament cooldown (and whatever other healing legacies you happen to find: Vocal Skills Healing, Rallying Cry Healing, etc.). This will be more than adequate until you reach 75.
For the (non-buff-stick) weapon, use a 2-hander with Pressing Attack targets (only add a couple ranks to this one; it’s costly). You probably ought to upgrade your weapon before you have enough points to spend on too many other legacies, but if you have lots of IXP runes in the bank, some useful legacies are the Telling Mark damage and To Arms Duration.
I would upgrade the weapon more often than the emblem, because while leveling, the crucial thing is to kill lots of goblins and Dunlendings, not to eke out a couple percentage points on your heals.
For the buff stick, the priority is the bonus to Motivating Speech. The other buff legacies scale terribly with level, so I wouldn’t worry about them at all until you hit level cap.
When you get to endgame, do whatever Ketani says.
August 2, 2012 at 4:13 am
Darn right on a solo lvl 58+ Captain.
The importance of SL cooldown used in conjunction with the red capstone while leveling cannot be stressed more.
August 2, 2012 at 9:21 am
Thank you for the great writeup Dietlbomb! Thanks so much for the great advice.
August 2, 2012 at 7:29 pm
You’re welcome. Keep in mind that the advice is for a mostly-solo captain while leveling. And you can’t really go wrong while leveling anyway. So I say moar dps!
I love the show!
August 2, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Oh yeah, one more thing. The strategy I wrote about uses tons of power. Make sure you slot Now for Wrath at all times.
August 2, 2012 at 4:36 am
I think there is one mention where “To Arms” can be a buff stick legacy. Most captains like it on their main weapon for convenience. However, I put “To Arms” on my buff stick to mainly free up more legacies for my main weapon. I have my quickslots set up where I click on my buff stick, next button is “to arms”, then the button after that is my main weapon. For your buff emblem, you can set up something similar with their respective skills, then finish off with your main emblem. For example, you can do one slot with your buff emblem, next be shield of the dunedain, strength of will, and/or escape from darkness, then your main emblem last. The only exception is buffs altogether, as they are all gathered on another part of my quickslots all together. One thing to note putting to arms on your buff stick is that you need telling mark on both main and buff sticks if switching and you’re the “telling mark” captain. Otherwise it’ll reset back to 5% and you need to reapply the mark.
August 3, 2012 at 12:23 am
Yeah I’m thinking of putting to arms on the buff stick as well and setting up quick slots accordingly to allow for quick switching. Too many good major legacies.
August 2, 2012 at 7:18 am
Can this become a recurring thread? Class a week maybe?
I’d love to read input for Minstrel legacies.
August 2, 2012 at 9:21 am
You got it!
August 2, 2012 at 11:23 am
For the buffstick my cappy lucked out with the crit and morale boosts on the moria opening quest.
Am I right in thinking that you can just keep the same weapon once you have the legacies in place and levelled up?
August 2, 2012 at 11:42 am
The magnitude of your relentless attacks crit buff legacy increases as the required level of your legendary weapon increases, and as the age decreases. % morale from motivating speech will remain the same.
Eventually, you’ll want to upgrade your buff stick in order to upgrade the crit buff legacy. Take it easy though, maybe replace every 10 levels as you level up.
August 3, 2012 at 12:27 am
yeah you want your buff stick at the highest level and lowest age possible since your tactic buffs scale accordingly (i.e relentless attack applied by a 3rd age 75 buff weapon is +1464, whereas the same buff from a 2nd age 75 is +1500…not huge but every little bit helps ;p
August 3, 2012 at 6:54 am
Had a feeling the morale stayed the same, wasnt sure about the other buffs. Once every 10 levels sounds about right for a new one.
Thanks for the info.
August 3, 2012 at 2:18 am
My recommendation for legacies is not to worry about them too much if you’re levelling your captain. You can keep your buff stick if you intend to group at your current level. Otherwise, every 5 or so levels, replace your legendary weapon. For example, I’d use your starter legendaries until level 55 (they usually have decent legacies). Once you are 55, use some dwarf tools and barter for a captain weapon (use as many as you got) until you get a weapon and/or emblem that you like legacy wise. Same deal at 59 with khuzdul tablets. At 65, look in the AH for a decent captain weapon (or get on crafted if possible). If you can score a crafted 2nd age at 65, just keep it until you get to 75. Otherwise, get another 3rd age upgrade around level 70 (and 75/80 if you’re still levelling once RoR is here). Once you hit 75 (or 85 if you’re still levelling when RoR comes out), you can focus on the legacies listed in the above comments along with a buff stick.
Mainly for legacies, if you’re soloing, I’d stick with a weapon if it had telling mark for an ID, and just level dps value and that legacy and not worry about any others.
If you plan on grouping in your 50′s, you can use dwarf tools and khuzdul tablets to barter for a third age for the desired legacies listed above and get a buff stick as well. Then 59/60 get a first age or crafted 2nd age if you do turtle/watcher or moria instances.
August 2, 2012 at 10:09 pm
Sheesh, first it’s tell me what expansion to buy. Now it’s tell me how to trait.
(joking – couldn’t resist).
Good idea for recurring feature. Lots of good info here. I’ll be noodling through all the replies the next time I have a couple of hours to focus on my cappy.
thanks