Today, Brian “Zombie Columbus” Aloisio released a developer diary relating to a new PvMP stat coming with Update 6 named “Audacity”. Audacity will be a “stackable” stat that will “…reduce incoming damage and crowd control durations while in the Ettenmoors.” Zombie Columbus states that the reason for the addition of this stat were due to several causes:
- Current PvMP gear fees “underpowered” or too difficult to acquire. (So that it did not devalue PvE offerings.)
- PvMP combat is too fast paced due to the damage changes made in Isengard. (Such as the removal of stat caps.)
- Crowd Control effects are still too powerful.
- PvMP has no “seasonal mechanic” so that there is no incentive to earn additional gear once it is obtained.
Both Freeps and Creeps will be able to increase their Audacity by either purchasing PvMP armor (Freeps) or by purchasing a rank in a new passive trait (Creeps). Both Creeps and Freeps will gain a “free” rank of Audacity. Creeps will gain this rank upon their creation and Freeps will gain it upon hitting level 40. Audacity will also be capped at rank 7 for both sides, but that rank will be increased over time as future sets of armor are released. Both Creeps and Freeps will be able to check their rank of Audacity within the War Panel.
Opinion
I believe it was in our last episode where I stated that I wasn’t sure how Turbine could make sure that PvMP gear was not as effective in PvE without throwing in a stat like this and sure enough here is the stat. Now, this doesn’t mean that Audacity isn’t necessarily a bad thing. However, despite what Turbine may say I always found that as “Seasons” of PvMP progressed in other games it was increasingly difficult to stand against players who already had obtained specifically statted gear. But on the other hand since most battles in the Ettenmoors are usually more horde vs. horde than 1 vs. 1; who’s to say that this route won’t work? I’m interested to hear what our readers think though, so please feel free to voice your opinion below.
February 22, 2012 at 2:59 pm
I know he states in the diary that ‘while the potency of low rank Audacity will keep new players viable’ but I hope this doesn’t turn into a Radiance type gating mechanism. For it to work for low ranks as well as high level rank peeps, the diminishing returns on the trait will have to diminish more and more as the trait goes up.
I am very hopeful but I guess we shall see when it shows up on Bullroarer.
February 22, 2012 at 6:19 pm
I sense the frustration and I just want to point out to people who continue to ignore the signs – it is not just one thing that Turbine has done that shows they are operating without care…it’s the consistent ignorance. Why do they continue to market these updates to us as if we’ve been clamoring for them? Why do they continue to make changes to things when they’re so very clearly on the lowest of low rungs on the player “wish lists” of things needing a look, if they’re on a list at all? These things have clearly been in development for some time, but so have the pages of pleas from every day players that are asking for real substantial updates to things that are out-of-date, need attention in order to breathe new life either into the player base or into old yet entertaining content, or are recent introductions that show they aren’t thinking ahead even though they claim to be (as in something like Ost Dunhoth that isn’t scalable…it’s a new instance and they can’t really sit back and claim they didn’t know they were going to release bigger content while instances like GB and Ost Elendil got reworked scaling tech). They ignore us not just because they can, but because they’re not interested in appeasing long standing players…just making quick bucks, since it doesn’t cost them anything. It wouldn’t cost them anything to fix or update what WE want, either, but they don’t think they’d be making the quick money off what they can market as flashy and “new”. Each step in the direction they are headed feels more and more as if I’m walking into a trap.
February 22, 2012 at 6:39 pm
‘It wouldn’t cost them anything to fix or update what WE want, either,’
Erm, yes it would. It quite obviously would.
As far as PvMP goes, you are in NO position to speak for any part of the player community, and therefore you have no cause to go claiming that these changes are on the ‘low rungs’ of what players want. You speak only for yourself.
I mean, I’m assuming your post has more substance than the usual ‘the game is going downhill ’cause the devs won’t do what I tell them!’.
February 23, 2012 at 9:10 am
I don’t think the “rung” comment was directed at you, pvMP players, or anyone specific. I think it was more likely a comment on how there are many other things being asked for or promised (new PvMP area?) that are being ignored.
On the cost – if everything costs something, how can one development cycle be compared to another (by asking “does it cost more?)? So in that way, no…it won’t cost anything…simple operation of the company costs SOMETHING. Development costs something. It wouldn’t cost MORE (in this case, anything…because its not extra) to give us something WE want…other than opportunity. PvMP would never exist outside a much larger “regular” game…that’s where the freeps come from.
I didn’t see anything from your post that suggests anything more than one of the usual head-stuck-in-the-sand commenters, of the sort that mused Turbine would never sell stat armor in the game. Ironic, since you make a similar accusation against sportsguy.
February 22, 2012 at 6:27 pm
In a one-on-one situation, if one player has more Audacity than the other, the one with the higher Audacity is generally going to win. Once experiencing this, everyone will go out of their way to max out their Audacity as fast as they can. What this will lead to is mass battles where it takes slightly longer to kill people, and those with escape or especially healing abilities will find those abilities have become comparatively more valuable.
Once Audacity hits, you’re going to hear more people yelling more vehemently for someone to “mark the damn healers”, and for people to “stop hitting the dps and kill the damn healer”. Yes, more than happens now. Healers have always been huge for swaying the tide of a battle, but this is going to buy them a little more time and a little more freedom. And tanks, of course, are going to enjoy the feeling of being even tankier.
March 23, 2012 at 1:20 am
Hmm, way I see it, less new people venturing into the Moors because Moors grinding becomes an overbearing necessity. I know my LM won’t go there anymore. I’ll just wait for that other MMORPG that promises some more thought through pvp that’s less about gear grind and/or pay to win and more about skill.
February 22, 2012 at 7:15 pm
I suspect we’ll see audacity creep into the pvmp based gear as part of the “make it worth the grind” thing. It does make a lot of sense to make pvmp require a pvmp based stat that is earned by either gear or rank.
As someone who dabbles with pvmp I have to say I’m not surprised at the addition of the audacity stat, interesting choice of name for it too, but as a dabbler I can see that there will be those who will start kicking up a stink over change for the sake of change. Genrally in games if a change is going to cause a fuss it’ll be in the pvp side of things that you really find the vocal minority crying foul the loudest.
If it makes fights last a bit longer then from my point of view then thats a good thing as somethimes in the moors the fights are more of a skirmish than rolling battle. And by skirmish I mean that at times you blink and it’s over, with the run/ride back into combat takes longer than the fight itself.
To me the moors fights should be more about large scale battles but most of my mmo based pvp dates back to the honour system of vanilla wow where AV battles could last all day and were pretty damn awesome with the ebb and flow of battle, blizz royally screwed that up with their revamp before burning crusade and that killed pvp in wow for me.
To my mind someone that has earned the rank for a certain quality of gear/stat then they should be harder to kill, it’s an incentive to rank up if nothing else. Just as in wow someone that was riding about on their rank 10/11 mount with marshall gear indicated that this player would be harder to kill in pve gear other than maybe the t2 bwl raid stuff.
February 23, 2012 at 12:43 am
I understand the need for a Creep stat to give damage mitigation and CC balance, but why give it to Freeps as well? We’ve got Finesse and specific mitigation gear, it just seems that Turbine is trying to even it so that the haters won’t complain about Creeps getting this, but it’ll still be Freep dominating 1v1 of an equal skill level due to gear and skills.
February 23, 2012 at 8:01 am
Audacity limits CC/Stun durations which neither finesse or mitiations. This will allow PvE nessecary CC mechanics to be adjusted in the Ettens without altering PvE. Seems like it may provide a more healthy SOA level of PvMP, I was in the Ettens last week and fights were so fast a lucky crit or a single mistake pretty much meant death for noobs like me, At least this will provide a means to slow combat (again without affecting PvE) so there will be a little more time for e to learn and react to a fight, and as Andang says below, should enable lower rank players to stand a little more chance.
I assume as they say +1 audacity on armour, that this will nnot be on jewelry then. I wonder if they will leave jewelry and offhands as they are with rank requirements still make rank desirable?
February 23, 2012 at 6:58 am
People complain about PvMP being unbalanced all the time when really the only reason they are losing is because of the difference in rank. This sounds like it will allow players at low levels to be a little stronger against those high rank players. I am very glad they are doing this because I believe that something like this is absolutely needed. Also I am very glad that this is yet another change to PvMP and I can’t wait to get my hands on these changes and see them for myself.
February 23, 2012 at 8:37 am
“People complain about PvMP being unbalanced all the time when really the only reason they are losing is because of the difference in rank.”
Hardly. Two rank 10 wargs and a rank 6 or so Blackarrow to take down one Champion the other night. Another example: 24 creeps, a full raid, chasing one Champion from TR ford to the TR graveyard and couldn’t kill him due to bubbles, heals and Sprint.
Rank isn’t the only issue although it is true that lower ranked creeps are essentially cannon fodder. The simple fact is that there are some classes at the moment that have abilities that are just plain hard to counter no matter what rank you are.
It’s not a single issue problem, there are myriad issues to do with balance right now.
February 23, 2012 at 9:33 am
Creeps have similar avoidance techniques, warg disappear/sprint, BA evade, Reaver dying rage. Freeps are far from alone in their ability to make themselves unkillable….
February 23, 2012 at 11:56 pm
Unless they’ve changed the skill, a reaver dies at the expiration of Dying Rage. Not really much of an escape skill.
February 23, 2012 at 10:20 am
@ Mr. Warg- I would agree that Champions, Minstrils and Rune-Keepers are overpowered but at the same time classes like the hunter are underpowerd. I think a major issue that a lot of players don’t think about or at least don’t usually talk about is the fact that there are more Freep classes then Creeps and so the 6 creep classes have to be balanced with many more Freep classes. I think if Turbine would include a few more Creep classes to fill in our gaps then this would help the overall balance of the Moors.
February 23, 2012 at 10:33 am
That’s not a bad point actually Andang. Introducing another creep class could help things along. I definitely agree on the matter of some classes being a bit under par, as I mentioned in my reply to Blister.
The trouble is we seem to be in a constant cycle of one or two classes becoming ‘flavour of the month’ when they receive significant boosts. Not only do these boosts make them very powerful they also unbalance the population of the Moors, which further erodes balance.
February 24, 2012 at 12:10 pm
Hunter weaker? xD Lmao, just fight a good hunter then, good hunters obliterate almost every creep in seconds in a 1vs1, not even talking about raids vs raids where they truly shine.
There are many many good hunters out there who can easily win a 1vs1 against rank 12′s of any creep class and that without even having to use pots.
Please don’t talk about these things like you know about it if you obviously don’t.. The times when hunters couldn’t fight back are quite a bit behind us.
February 23, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Totally see what you’re saying but you have to account for (freep side) virtues and class traits (or lack of) as well. You can take two level 75 champs and have one be a power house and one be not so hot. That’s hard to counter in terms of balance I’d think, as that falls on the players rather than Turbine.
I always thought that lower rank creeps being fast kills should be all the reason a creep needed to ‘rank up’. Worked for me every time. There’s so much more to pvmp than just ranks and gear. Sometimes it’s skill that comes from experience playing in the ‘Moors. A guy named “Dot” came to Windfola from Brandywine a few years ago and his style of fighting very much used the landscape to bolster our defenses. He had us all over the map and taught us so much, and we were super experienced creeps. I don’t play much in the ‘Moors anymore because it’s boring going from point A to point B and back.
Anyway, just saying, there’s a lot more to the problems in the ‘Moors than just rank. And some of it has nothing to do with Turbine.
February 23, 2012 at 10:11 am
I just started playing the PvP game after reading the “How to be a monster articles” To me it does seem freep damage is much higher, I hope this will help by giving freeps a choice between higher incoming and outgoing damage from their PvE sets, or less damage incoming and outgoing from PvP sets.
I also think its a good idea as it restores some balance to progression between the 2 sides. As it seems there is an oceans difference between a r0 and a r10 creep (assuming no store bought skills) while the difference between a r0 and r10 freep is a stream. I’ve found my rank is more limiting than my currency (although its a little hard to tell as I cam to the PvP aspect of lotro with a fair few DP from soloing) as a creep, so introducing this as little effect on my creep progression, while introducing more of a differential between different experience levels of freeps.
February 23, 2012 at 10:30 am
I think you miss my point Blister. Avoidance skills are one thing, and you are correct both sides have them, an indeed this isn’t an issue of freeps vs creeps. In fact I have always thought that line of argument pretty strange as we are all players, taking one side over another seems rather pointless if what we want is balance.
Those survival aren’t a problem in and of themselves. What is a problem is when it an entire raid of creeps can’t kill one Champion or when a Mincer manages to take down two of the four creeps attacking him and still make it out alive and so on and so on.
Turbine said they had abandoned the concept of 1 freep = many creeps, but it doesn’t quite work that way at the moment. We have some classes, such as Minstrels and Champions, able to field some very powerful abilities that are extremely difficult to combat whilst other classes, such as the Hunter, have pretty low survivability and are, to me as a warg anyway, essentially free infamy.
Survival and avoidance skills have always been there, but at the moment we are seeing such a disparity between some of the classes, on both sides, that it really does make for an uneven playing field.
February 23, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Used to 5 creeps couldn’t take a burg down so I see what you’re saying. Champs and minis used to be easy to kill when focus fired on. Shame the devs can’t start doing regular ‘moors matches with each other. Get a tean of dev freeps against a team of dev creeps. Maybe then they’d see the problems better than just look at logs? Assuming that’s how they analyze the data …
April 18, 2012 at 10:17 am
This all just makes me laugh coz there is nothing to believe or not to, its a FACT freeps are OP to creeps these examples were just few out of thousand
And i totaly agree with flamingbard, tehy should just try to actually PLAY the game before they decide to say whats balanced. Creep sometimes with one whole rank doesnt get enough boost as a freep with a piece of eq. They are stronger at any point and its sad that random freep can get my morale from 15k to half on just one hit heal its self at the same time and survive the attack of 5 creeps, not to mention other classes. Im not crying about it ussually im used to OP classes in lots of otehr games ive playd(and had lot expiriance in it) but this is not just an OP class , they are all unfairly stronger. I know we are creeps but do we have to be like REALLY creeps 