It wasn’t too long ago that the LOTRO community was debating the validity of Turbine’s decision to sell armor in the in-game store. Shortly after that, Turbine responded with a long letter explaining their reasons behind the decision as well as their promise to communicate better with the community on the decisions that they make.
In an effort to resolve the ill-will that was generated by the initial integration of the store-only armor into the game, it was announced yesterday that starting in Update 5.2 Turbine will be adding the current store-only Relic Removal Scrolls, Morale Potions, and Power Potions to the Lock box system. They will also be increasing the drop rates for both Lock boxes and keys as one of their “first steps” into integrating these items into the game. They will also be discussing further ways for players to possibly obtain the store-only armor outside of the store. In the meantime you can expect that these items (as well as some other suggested items ) to be appearing in upcoming lotteries. But while Sapience stresses that these are “first steps” to resolving the issues surrounding these items; he also explains that not every solution that is suggested will actually be implemented. (I for one would be surprised if the store armor was ever made craftable.)
On a personal note, I can appreciate this note from Sapience as well as Turbine’s decision to try to find a way to integrate these items into the game. I’m not entirely sold on the idea of the Lock box system being a good solution to distributing these items, but as long as they follow through on their stated intentions I can take a “wait and see” approach to the whole ordeal for the time being. What I’d really like to know is what you all think about the statment. Is this a good start? What else can be done to remedy the situation? Please leave us a comment telling us what you think.
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February 8, 2012 at 12:51 pm
My feelings on the store armour itself are pretty ambivalent really. I can understand the dislike of them, and frankly given the choice I would not have put them in there, but I was never wholly outraged by it.
That aside, I’m more pleased that they’re acknowledging and attempting to improve on their communication(or the lack thereof in some cases) than I am at any of the changes in themselves.
Honestly, I don’t mind them looking at various avenues of generating income(they are a business after all), so long as they are clear and open with their intentions and explain the motivations for the decisions they make. This is something I appreciated with the original reply Sapience made and I hope they can keep it up for future ‘controversial’ stuff which will inevitably occur at some point.
February 8, 2012 at 1:07 pm
I like that they are looking for solutions to some of the concerns that have arisen over the past year of this new model. Really, we all knew there would be growing pains, I just did not think they would take so long to be acknowledged.
Still not a fan of the lock-box lottery system (if I spend points, I want to know what I’m getting rather than only having a chance to get what I want), but as long as Turbine keeps up with the promise of more communication, I am willing to see where things go from here.
February 8, 2012 at 1:12 pm
My feelings are similar to the others’: Communication/explanations are a Good Thing. Having loot-boxes be the “solution” seems kind of ludicrous but I’m willing to wait and see how the drop rates change.
February 8, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Maybe they should just just give certain items for free in the store to the VIP players. This conflictual armor for instance, seems like a good candidate, hehe.
February 8, 2012 at 1:26 pm
So.. am I misreading this? They are removing the ‘store only’ classification from those items by introducing them into the loot tables for the lockboxes – okay, great, now those items are accessible in game. But.. the lockboxes have to be opened with a key that is only available in the store?
It just seems like juggling around what points are being spent on so that it sounds better – did I miss something?
February 8, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Keys for lootboxes do drop in game, albeit more random than the lootbox but they have dropped
February 8, 2012 at 3:43 pm
aha, that was the bit that I’d missed.
February 8, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Keys drop in game, too. As someone else noted, though, the droprates were very low. We’ll see what happens when those rates are increased.
February 8, 2012 at 3:12 pm
I had read something that they increased the likelihood that you’ll get one of these keys, but I have no details. Maybe someone else does?
February 8, 2012 at 1:30 pm
Never yet seen a lockbox drop let alone a key so not entirely convinced that this is the best option on offer.
Tiny droprate plus tiny droprate means teenytiny droprate for the new bits, assuming you can be bothered with buying the key as again its another miniscule droprate on those.
February 8, 2012 at 1:42 pm
I hate to have such a bad attitude, but the game was better before they had The Dark Store, with its pay-to-win items. There’s too much emphasis on Turbine Points and The Store is too intrustive. Only things good about F2P was it put more money in Turbine’s coffers and increased the playerbase.
February 8, 2012 at 1:47 pm
This is exactly what I was afraid of with the free to play model. Didn’t they say from the start that they would NEVER introduce things like armor into the store so that it didn’t become pay2win?
Well, so much for that.
February 8, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Store pots was the first nail in that coffin. Personally, I’d rather they just dispense with the pretense altogether and say – yeah, it’s advantage. It’s not game-breaking, so take it or leave it.
February 8, 2012 at 1:51 pm
I think it works, but only as a temporary/first step (something that could be implemented in the timeframe of a 5.2 release). It’s still a wait and see for U6 and possible later updates to see how/if things will change.
February 8, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Relic Removal Scrolls, Morale Potions, and Power Potions are not required in any way to play the game or to stay competitive. The store armor is more of the same. I get tired of people talking about these things as if they are a staple of game play, so we are entitled to getting them in-game. They really aren’t.
February 8, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Relic removal was removed from the game so that it could be placed in the store. It was once part of every reforge and while it is “easier” to obtain higher level relics than before, those relics are not as powerful, nor is it as easy to get relics as they would like you to believe. What was once a simple part of leveling LIs is a daily grind, because if you’re not careful you will lose the higher level ones without having suitable replacements. You will have SOMETHING, just not what you needed.
I actually think removal scrolls would have been great if they were a straight addition – allowing people to remove relics from maxed out weapons. Instead it is 3 bucks if you want to save your hard earned ones or even store purchased ones.
February 8, 2012 at 3:13 pm
We’ve already been over the whole “that shouldn’t be in the store!” thing. I, for one, am happy that they seem to be considering ways to address this despite the difficulties of doing so in a F2P game.
As long as they continue to involve the community and try things they think will make people enjoy the game more, I’m more or less happy. Some of them will be misses, but their response to those misses is the key thing in my opinion.
February 8, 2012 at 4:06 pm
My initial impression of how Turbine conducted themselves when the news first broke about the armor was that they wanted us to think they were doing this on a lark – “Gee-whiz, we’ve gotten some complaints recently by new players that low-level gear can’t be found in the AH so we’ve just decided to sell beginner armor in the store.” Hmmm…there an entire Beta forum full of various and similar customer complaints that have never been addressed. And now (since the devs apparently have nothing better to do) an ostensible need arises (that just happens to be the type of cornerstone around which a potentially more lucrative type of F2P model might be built) and they are suddenly forthcoming with a solution.
I don’t buy that this was done on a lark at the sudden behest of some vocal new players. It just seems like a bunch of poorly executed spin to me. If it was a lark then they would have pulled it just as quickly after receiving the kind of backlash they did. Instead, the ostensibly lark-ish armor will stay, but will now also be available in-game as a sort-of rare drop. I think this was part of their potential F2P business model all along, and the whole ‘new player complaints’ thing was just pretext. I think they honestly believe that some measure of pay-to-win will ultimately be their most lucrative model, and they have begun feeling out what that measure will be. For whatever reason they chose the present, and now that this feeling-out process has begun it will not stop. They got their first indication of where the pay-to-win line might be drawn with the acrimony to the beginner armor. They have absolutely no intention of removing the armor and will instead now attempt to make it seem less obnoxious by adding in-game availability, thus hopefully anesthetizing us for what will come next.
Having said all that, I believe they realize that selling end-game gear will not be financially optimal over the long term, but they are not above selling whatever less-than-end-game gear they think will be optimal. I think that process has begun and there is no going back, for whatever that is worth to all of us. Not trying to be overly-negative here – that’s just my take.
February 8, 2012 at 4:08 pm
I feel that if they are allowed to make the decisions they are making without questioning from the player base, they will start removing items from the game and place them in the store as convenience items or stop developing them in game and outright adding them to the store for purchase. The game is in need of some of these store exclusive things that are popping up in game, not just as money makers in the store. This SOUNDS like a step in the right direction, but as someone pointed out, it feels like an excuse to do more in the store! “See? We’re telling you in advance and increasing your chance from 1-in-a-million to 1-in-900,000. That’s what you wanted right?”
February 8, 2012 at 5:32 pm
While it sounds hopeful that Turbine is responding to players’ feelings about store-exclusive items that directly impact gameplay, I think they have missed the point by making them available as gambling rewards. When players said they wanted relic removal scrolls to be available in game, we meant AVAILABLE in game, i.e. able to be bartered for or otherwise earned, not possibly available as a one in a hundred chance in a lootbox that could require the use of TP anyway if one isn’t lucky enough to find a key. If I am in need of a scroll today, how does it help me to start hoping a lootbox AND a key might someday drop and that said box would actually have what I needed? They would have to increase the drops very significantly in order to make this a serious alternative to using the store.
The solution to me would be to offer these items in the store as a convenience for casual players who would rather not grind for them, and also make them truly earnable in game for enough effort to not overly compete with the use of the store. Finding that right balance would seem to allow Turbine to make money while satisfying a large number of players.
February 8, 2012 at 5:35 pm
I’m glad they want to be more open with the player base. There’s plenty of games where the higher ups never address the player base.
There’s lots of things in the store that are not required to advance in the game and are just there as an extra bonus. And quite frankly I get sick of people blaming F2P for everything they deem negative. Do you think non-vip players what to buy that armor? Or buy the key to those loot boxes?
February 8, 2012 at 5:39 pm
I’m just becoming increasingly sceptical of the entire F2P model.
It seems to me that once a game becomes free to play, the focus of the developers changes. Their work no longer revolves entirely around making the best game possible with the resources available in order to retain subscribers. Instead, their focus is on finding new and innovative ways to make you reach for your wallet.
It’s certainly understandable. Without a subscription model perhaps income is inconsistent, so ways need to be found to keep a steady stream of income. That doesn’t mean I have to like the road this game is going down, but I’m sure some people have no problem with it at all. It’s just more and more, I become cynical.
February 8, 2012 at 6:12 pm
F2P stores are a tricky balancing act.
You can either stack them with lots of ingame stuff and run the risk of not getting a decent income from sales or you can keep a stock of exclusive items such as the (overpriced) mounts.
People who are happy to pay for convenience will take up on the potions and such. I kind of think the majority of players will fall into the group where purchases are for the larger items such as storage, content or mounts.
Content will be a finite amount per player as will storage and while mounts do draw attention there will come a point where most will be bored of another reskinned horse/pony. Some like myself will prehaps buy one or be waiting for the class mount they want to come around. Turbine are trying to offset the boredom by limiting the exposure of each mount but they still need a regular source of player expenditure that outweighs what can be earned ingame without raising store prices.
Compared to f2p stores in other games the lotro one isnt bad however it does seem to be heading the wrong direction in the drive to generate revenue. Generally I’m happy with the option of convenience items but to be told that you can get things in game as drops when the drop rate is so small is kind of hard to swallow.
Has anyone actually heard of the lockbox mount actually being ingame or has it only been seen on screen in the art department at turbine.
February 8, 2012 at 6:20 pm
A little step in the right direction, here’s a few more steps before I’d be completely convinced, not asking for much
If Scholars could make similar potions to store ones, maybe make them bind on acquire or exclusive guild recipes.
Give armoursmithing and tailoring recipes a run through, the stats were never updated with RoI, it’s not really the skins or exact stats, but having a range of items that are competitive with the store bought items. Same with quest rewards and skirmish rewards.
What would really encourage trading of armour at low levels is a revamp to the auction house, either permanent listings or allow players post buy orders.
Relic removal should be restored for reforges. It should never have been a store exclusive, it should have been a convenience item to remove relics when the LI wasn’t close to being reforged.
February 8, 2012 at 8:22 pm
I’d second the adjustment of stats on crafted and quest reward gear, after the roi adjustments there’s still a huge amount of low to mid level gear thats got off stats.
Been focussing on my mini of late and get dismayed by the light armour with large amounts of might or agility over will.
February 9, 2012 at 7:07 am
andy: i have the same problem with my rune keeper. starting around lvl 20 until close to moria and even inside, lots of light armor gear just makes no sense. i’m talking mostly about quest rewards. there are some nice ones, but the vast majority has stats clearly not intended for a light armor user. the same went for my guardian when i was earning heavy armor with will and fate.
i personally don’t believe in loot boxes and i’m still waiting to see them and the keys on AH.
February 9, 2012 at 12:09 pm
why can’t they put the those items in lotro lottery
I too agree with a quest armour crafted armour and skirmish armour revamp with better itemised stats oh and monster drop revamp too they drop junk
February 9, 2012 at 2:11 pm
To be honest I wasn’t a part of LOTRO till it went F2P. I can understand the store being intrusive, and store exclusive items can be a little annoying. But I don’t see them as ruining the game, yet. Lets face it, I wouldn’t have played if they hadn’t changed the system. And now I have put a couple months VIP, 2 expansions, and more than a handful of TP cards into the thing.
The lockbox thing is just a way to make a store exclusive item not store exclusive per say. However, I found a lock box, and used a key to open it from the store. So a large majority of the people will still spend TP on these items, but the fine print is legal to say its not exclusive.
I don’t really care. So what if they have store exclusive items! As long as it doesn’t evolve into mid lvl or end game gear, who really cares? I for one, blow through lvl 0-25 in no time at all, and uber gear i paid real cash for is just not a smart idea. Anyone who really thinks they need to buy the gear to survive, or thinks it worth the money….well they need to get better at the game
Anyway, Turbine….ur better than Blizzard, and for that I thank you!
February 11, 2012 at 7:55 am
I’m not very OK with the decision. I know the droprate is very very very very very very low, but still, I think that some items should remain store exclusive. While the armors gets a “meh” from me, since I ususally get intierested in my armor until higher levels, things like the scroll and the pots should remain exclusive. I it not a huge advantage to those who buy it and it lets turbine get the moeny so they don’t start creating higher level armors for the store…
I don’t know if this would be possible, but if they put in a Lockbox ingame and then include a high level armor set in the store that could be essential for raiding… could that mean that they would get an excuse sayin: “well, it is in game, so everyone can get it”? It kinda makes me sceptical, altough I am hoping for the best here, since the developers (not marketing though) are very passionate about their own game… wait and see is all I can say at this moment.