January 31, 2012
Last week we saw Orion discuss some of the upcoming changes in store for Wardens with Update 6, and this week he is dedicated to releasing even more information.
In his second post he takes a look at the Gambits for the Shield and Spear gambits and how their effects change depending on the stance the Warden is in at the time of their execution. Also included are changes to the Legendary Skills Defiant Challenge and Way of the Warden.
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A Casual Stroll to Mordor Blog and Podcast is fansite service started by married couple Merric and Goldenstar. They started playing The Lord of the Rings Online (LOTRO) during beta and both of have lifetime subscriptions to the game.
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January 31, 2012 at 10:16 am
Thanks for PDFing this — you just saved me a lot of work.
I am drooling over the changes. It’s definitely going to take some smarts to play this class well and take advantage of the benefits that stance-flipping can provide, but I think it’s going to be amazing.
Rock on!
January 31, 2012 at 10:31 am
Wardens are going from somewhat useless to completely overpower. Why? Take a look at defiant challenge and the set bonus he lists. Crit immunity after receiving a crit, the ability to become imune to stun, daze and knockdown, and a very powerfull skill with 3.5 minutes of cooldown.
Orion should do that to all classes then and make them all overpower, because he seems to that to all classes he works with, as champs and minstrels are very OP currently.
January 31, 2012 at 11:16 am
I’m guessing you have no Idea what is actually going on here. If anything, people are complaining that these changes don’t do enough.
You make it sound as though you can do all this stuff at once – you can’t. First off, as per the changes, you can only be crit immune for 6 seconds out of every 45. Same goes for stun immunity. Just keeping stun immunity for 1/3 of the time will require at least 1/4 of your build time. Yes DC will be a powerful skill on a 3.5m cooldown, but the effect lasts for just a few seconds, requires a legendary trait and has a ridiculously long animation.
Sounds like PvMP whining to me – wardens have always been overpowered for solo – provided they know what they’re doing. The problem is and always has been group role – which so far as I’ve seen this update does little for.
January 31, 2012 at 11:40 am
People thought the same thing about minis and champs, that the changes would break the class, were not enough, etc. And guess what? Champs are very powerfull right now, probably being the best DPS AND best tank classes. And playing a minstrel I am sure they are very OP, with crits healing over 8k on some skills and virtually infinite power (composure + coda combo).
The problem with Turbine is, is seems all the developers live in their own cubicle and never discuss anything. They don’t seem to realize that their changes are going to affect other parts of the gameplay as well. Not a surprise they broke and were bought, lol.
January 31, 2012 at 12:36 pm
The biggest problem was that champs and minstrels didn’t need a buff before ROI. They were already really good at what they did. The changes were completely over the top unnecessary, I agree. Not so with wardens. Warden’s main role was intended to be a tank, but the heavy armor changes (which in my opinion were introduced to facilitate champ tanking), left wardens in the dust in terms of mitigations. I strongly feel that wardens are NOT broken right now, but rather that the heavy armor mitigation being raised to 70% undid the balance that existed before. The right thing to do would be to lower the heavy mitigation cap back down so that the balance was the same as it was pre-ROI, but instead an unpopular nerf, they’ll buff wardens to the same level – or they’ll totally mess it up and not fix the problem of incoming damage for wardens , and thus miss the entire point for the class adjustment.
January 31, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Hunter chiming in here — all I know is from grouping with and talking to wardens, their class is severely broken. If they are somewhat OP for a year or two, good for them. It was always my understanding that wardens were designed to actually be one of the most cool and slightly OP classes in the game, *but only* if played correctly with a lot of skill and concentration. Sort of like how driving a Lamborghini requires mastering the stick shift.
January 31, 2012 at 1:19 pm
You’re pretty much right. Wardens are supposed to be a difficult class, and with all the modifiers coming in with each stance, we basically are now required to understand the 3 effects of each gambit in each stance to be a good warden. It’s not going to be easy, but the result is that yes, wardens are going to be much better off than they were at RoI. Our main problem has been our survivability in terms of defenses – BPE comes nowhere near the level of defense that heavy mitigation does. That’s why this new tanking line, with the crit immunity, and shield tactics blocking a stun/daze/knock up is really important for our class.
January 31, 2012 at 12:33 pm
@Reidartyr:
I don’t know who you are grouping with, but that certainly doesn’t reflect my experience. My main is a warden, but I also have a raiding mini healer, and I cannot agree that champs are the best tanks. Currently, guards are the best tanks. I know what it takes to keep a champ alive, and I know what it takes to keep a guard alive, and I know which of them is more likely to keep ME alive. In any difficult situation, give me a guard any day.
Critting 8k heals? Well, if you’re doing that on your mini, more power to you. I don’t think I have ever critted an 8k heal on a single target. Maybe on some group heals.
Yes, you can keep the power rolling in if you spam the skills. Kinda selfish of the mini to constantly regen power instead of helping the group with all the other mini skills, but that’s just my opinion.
None of which has anything to do with wardens. These changes are not going to make wardens OP. They are going to provide a HIGHLY SKILLED warden with the tools to be crazy wonderful again, the way we could be before RoI. But it will take a highly skilled player, and to my mind, that’s not being OP. Right now, wardens have three basic skills (not counting javelin skills and a couple on the skill bar) and 38 gambits (37 in Warden 2.0). Each does something different. The new stances are going to add variations to those skills based on the stances, and the variations can be significant.. This means the player has to know 1) how to build the gambit, 2) the base effect of the gambit, and 3) the additional stance effect of the gambit, if any. That’s 160 effects (or lack of effects) to know.
OP? An OP class is one where the player can blast every mob in sight by nosespamming skills while simultaneously eating a Hot Pocket and jabbering in Regional. And that’s not a Warden.
January 31, 2012 at 2:07 pm
I pretty much only play solo or in a duo with the missus, and am very much a casual player that in no way understands my skills properly
. Of the 4 classes I have got to 65 and beyond (in order, lore master, rune keeper, burglar and most recently warden), I have found the warden by far the easiest, in terms of the ability to survive. My warden just never dies 
. Not sure if I play him well, or just that I am incrediably bad at my other classes 
.
Anyway these changes sound interesting.
January 31, 2012 at 3:08 pm
The Boot
)
“25% chance for daze if in Determination
25% chance for root if in Assailment
DoT if in Recklessness”
Some people will whine about the DoT (I’m glad this version of ‘The Boot’ won’t give stun immunity, silly wardens trying to mez
February 1, 2012 at 12:35 am
@Pesky Dwarf,
Wardens have great survivability. I’m betting you play yours either well, or very conservatively.
February 1, 2012 at 10:33 am
I haven’t rolled a Warden yet, but I think a complicated class which rewards you for being dedicated to mastering it can only be a good thing.
I’m happy for a class to have the POTENTIAL to be better than all the rest as long as you have to work hard to achieve that.