An unexpected item to be added with update 5 are new steel-bound lootboxes. I learned about these on Store Update listing showing that Sturdy Steel Keys are available for purchase in the store.
I have yet to find one of these myself but there is a post on the official forums by Iyalim showing a lootbox he picked up from a skeleton in the Barrow Downs.
According to the tool-tip, the LOTRO Store is not the only place to pick up the keys. However, the keys dropping in the world are “very rare”.
The loot is intended to be helpful and they seem to be broken into level chunks to try to get rewards helpful for that level range. For example, Iyalim’s lootbox is for ranges 20 to 29.
In this thread there is a lootbox pictured for levels 70-75 being picked up by a Monster Player (creep) so they are available for both sides to find.
The boxes themselves seem to be rare as well so getting one will be more of a surprise rather than “ugh another box I can’t open”. The Monster Player thread was stating it was ~1% drop rate though who knows if that is accurate.
This seems to me a bit like Turbine is using the same idea used for the anniversary gift box token drops. In that event, mobs of a certain level drop corresponding tokens good for a gift box of goodies for that level range. The steel-bound boxes seem at least similar in design to try to give an extra bonus for the player fighting that level of monster.
The store posting does state that there is a chance to get an exclusive mount, a Marrow Painted Steed, from these lootboxes which may cause the horse collectors to perk up a bit. Unfortunately there is no picture of this new mount to share so far.
The keys on the LOTRO Store are selling for 100 Turbine Points (roughly $1 US) each and are consumed on use.
The boxes themselves are not bound and so you can trade them to friends or even sell them on the Auction House.
Opinions
The general consensus seems to be that the rareness of the boxes and keys coupled with the randomness of the loot inside make these not worth the time at the moment.
Personally, the idea of finding a rare item with random goodies inside appeals to me. What tends to sour me is that finding just one rare item (a lootbox) is essentially useless without it’s matching rare component (the key). I’d either have to place the lootbox in storage until such time I can find a key or cough up some turbine points to open it. At that point there’s a third game of chance that I paid for a key and ended up with a lot of silly junk I didn’t need/want.
I think I’d be more comfortable with the idea if the key in the store was some piddly price. That way if my random lootbox was filled with just some stuff I wasn’t interested in, I’d shrug it off more easily than “aw man, that wasn’t worth a $1!”
Honestly, this seems more like a tactic you’d see in a Zynga game than in a game like LOTRO. The instant-gratification-impulse-buy so you can complete something. Sure there are other things in the store similar to this but this seems a bit more than pay a little extra and advance. It’s pay a little extra and maybe you’ll get something awesome! There’s more uncertainty there than with other purchases.
As a parent I might also be concerned for the younger players (LOTRO is rated T and is for ages 13+) as this smacks of gambling a bit. Much like buying a raffle ticket for the chance at a prize, you’re buying a key hoping for that item you dreamed of. Perhaps it is out of the scope of gambling since “everyone’s a winner” in the fact that a key will grant you something. Still it should be a concern and we know there are no parental controls in LOTRO currently. (Read that article before you start yelling at me to “be the parent” okay?)
There is a discussion forum on the LOTRO site for thoughts and opinions on this new addition if you wish to do so! You’re also welcome to leave a comment here with your thoughts or experiences with the new lootboxes.
December 15, 2011 at 10:10 am
Thanks for writing this up. I was wondering what that store item was about.
I suppose if I stumbled upon a box and didn’t have a key handy I’d be willing to spend 50 points to instantly open it. On some level it seems more like gambling though — you’re paying for an unknown prize that’s based on chance lol
December 15, 2011 at 10:11 am
Short version – I completely agree with your opinions on this.
December 15, 2011 at 10:14 am
Agreed on the gambling bit. I just don’t like the idea in general that they would ask you to pay to *maybe* get something you want in the box. I know loot in instances and whatnot is tied to the rng as well, but at least there you are playing the game. (Which, is the point for me, rather than just the loot itself.)
I can’t imagine I’ll ever be opening one of these boxes unless I happen to find a box and a key at the same time. Does not seem very likely.
December 15, 2011 at 10:26 am
Like I said in the now-locked official feedback thread, if you’re spending points (money) on something, you really should be getting something back. This whole ‘give us money and we might give you something’ just feels wrong.
December 15, 2011 at 10:30 am
Specifically referring to the creep skins – if you wanted to make sure that people pay lots of TP to get one, then put it in the store and dispense with the pretense of ‘available in game as well’.
December 15, 2011 at 10:27 am
Someone got 1 Pink Dye from a chest, but Sapience said on the forum this was a bug ( should have been stack of 5 probably)
Also beware: There are multiple reports that these boxes can’t be destroyed by dragging them out of your inventory.
But you can mail them to an alt and simply not open the mail. Wait for to come back and expire.
December 15, 2011 at 10:29 am
Sorry to comment constantly (I wish I could edit, I just need more patience)!
I was thinking… Recently this is most similar to being able to pay 50TP for a pick axe for the treasure hunt. Yet that didn’t seem as egregious because the picks are not hard to find — buying it on the store saves time, but gives no clear advantage beyond that. It just doesn’t feel, for lack of a better word, “rigged”.
With something like this, where the drop is so incredibly rare… it just starts to feel “different” to me. And not only is the first drop rare, the second drop you need to even use it is rare too. That’s a lot of rarity. In this case, it makes that 50TP key seem almost like a necessity if you ever even find the box.
I can’t think of all the situations where Turbine has done this so far (which I like to think is because it’s rarer than some might say, but I could be wrong), but it reminds me of the stat tome drops. Yeah, they drop — but they’re so rare that it might as well not even matter.
Personally, I just wish that they stuck to cosmetic things, small buffs (slayer deed buffs aren’t hurting anyone) and areas/instances as opposed to things like this and stat increases. But given what seems to be most popular in F2P situations (the task reset item is always on the best seller list in the game), I guess that’s unlikely.
I think overall F2P was a good move — who knows if LOTRO would even still be around otherwise — but they’re clearly still learning. Hopefully they’ll reconsider things like this if enough people don’t like it and offer some constructive criticism (and not the “go back to the SoA days!” stuff you see most commonly which is just impossible lol).
I guess it’s a very fine line. Things that bother me don’t bother others and things that don’t bother me make other people upset. I’d not want to be in Turbine’s shoes because you can’t really “win” there.
December 15, 2011 at 10:31 am
And none of that even factors in the “!RANDOM!” factor of these boxes.
December 15, 2011 at 10:32 am
In short, bad and stupid idea. Spending resources implementing stuff like this instead of fixing bugs (just look at the Known Issues) is bad, really bad. This is what will make me stop playing the game if Turbine keeps pushing it.
December 15, 2011 at 11:04 am
I know three people that got these, and when curiosity got the better of them, bought a key, and got lotro store style morale and power potions, in a stack of 25.
If people want to then thats there own perogative. But I hope for the long term future of the store and its products, that the community on the whole rejects these, and just destroys them or uses in game keys only. I think you hit the nail on the head GS, this is too much like the awfull Asian MMO’s that use temptation/gambling based tricks to elicit money from players.
Lets just have items in the Store and a price (i.e the horse), and we pay for what we can see. Any form of random rewards should be obtained entirely through gameplay. Sure this can see how this can be construed as exactly that, but its the thin ond of a wedge. I have always steered away from skeptical attitudes towards the store, though I may not have liked some facets of it, but this is a real shame for LOTRO in my opion.
December 15, 2011 at 11:08 am
I don’t like it.
You’re right the keys are too pricey.
If you find one of these rare boxes and want to open it right away before who knows how long before you find a key, the keys should be dirt cheap in the Store. Like 10 TP or so. I’m not going to spend a dollar just for a random (and probably rare) chance to get something decent. If it’s filled with junk I could just as easily make, find, or buy on the AH then I’m not interested.
It might be worth a buck if there was a VERY good chance of getting a store exclusive item (or stack of items like a stack of deed accelerators, +25% skirmish mark tokens, etc..), which can typically sell for more than 100 TP. (After all you DID find the rare box to begin with – the reward should be good).
December 15, 2011 at 11:09 am
Are the keys bound as well? I see a lot of money being made on the AH with these these boxes.
December 15, 2011 at 12:13 pm
I think that someone posted on the Laurelin globallff channel that a key was on the AH for several hundred gold, don’t know if that was true. If so, any person buying it cannot have been very happy if what I’ve read about the loot so far is true. I think another person mentioned opening one and getting a stack of potions and something else of no particular value.
December 15, 2011 at 11:15 am
“What’s in the box?”
Pain!
December 15, 2011 at 1:13 pm
“Stop! I hold at your neck the gom jabbar … the high-handed enemy. It’s a needle with a drop of poison on its tip … It kills only animals.”
December 19, 2011 at 5:44 am
Do you suggest that the son of a Duke is an ANIMAL?!
December 15, 2011 at 11:16 am
Gah, there is no way I’d pay real money for a key to a box that I have no idea what it contains. This whole scheme reminds me of those very dodgy street cons where a shouty auctioneer type steam-rolls the public in to passing over twenty quid for a bag full of ‘stuff’ that is really not going to the be the ipad & mp3 player you saw him give out earlier and much more like a piece of crap alarm clock in a battered box and nasty toaster you wouldn’t pay a quid for.
Still, should I get one I’ll bang it in the AH and see what I get for it – I’m sure it will help pay for a goat or two from Thorin’s Hall
December 15, 2011 at 11:25 am
Haha, good analogy.
December 15, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Team Fortress 2 started doing pretty much the same thing. They drop these crates that contain in-game items that can either be equipped or used for crafting into other items, but the only way to open them is to buy keys with real money.
That was one of the things that made me stop playing TF2.
Now, that was more of a straw breaking the camel’s back situation, so I’m not exactly going to quit LOTRO over this. However, I find the whole system really unappealing. I doubt I’ll ever buy any of the keys (I could use those TPs on wardrobe slots!), so if I ever find a box, I’ll just end up putting it on the AH. Though I suspect they won’t sell very well there after the initial novelty wears off.
December 15, 2011 at 3:30 pm
I agree on that one :/
The idea can be found throughout other f2p games and I’m really not happy to see the Lotro-team pick up that one up and put in the game.
December 15, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Let the TF2 madness begin…
Now it’s assured, Lotro has become a moneysack. It’s a great sign.
December 16, 2011 at 2:09 am
soon all will be hats!
more seriously though, i thought they were a rip off in tf2 and these are worse. all they make me think is scam.
December 15, 2011 at 12:29 pm
I’m ok with this -if- there were fabulous prizes inside the box. Something like a first age weapon barter token, 10+G, or even a barter token for raid gear. Its a rare drop with an added 100TP purchase. They had better wow me at that price. A stack of dye or a cosmetic you can get by other means? That’s going to leave a bad taste after forking over 100TP.
So I’m fine with this -if- the rewards are random, but generally high. If its 1% great and 99% meh, then its just a way to make your player base angry.
–Harper
December 15, 2011 at 12:42 pm
If it didn’t need the key to open it, I think it’d be far better. Or perhaps if it actually ran more like the Anniversary token drops did. Get X number of tokens, barter for X gift box and cross your fingers you get something good.
At least in that case, it’s less of a slap in the face if you don’t get something decent (but you can still feel excited if you get something rare). As it stands, there are a LOT of irritated members of the creep community who have literally spent hours farming for a box, get the key from the store to open it, only to have something like 10 hobbit feet and 10 elf ears drop – items that take all of 10 minutes (or less) to farm. *Reportedly* someone got a stack of CG symbols, but so far that’s the best “loot” I’ve heard dropping (on either side) from these boxes.
My advice to anyone who might be considering dropping time and money into this: DON’T. Wait for Turbine to either fix it, or simply get rid of it and be glad you didn’t sink anything of yours into the farce.
December 15, 2011 at 1:12 pm
It’s a scam, pure and simple.
December 15, 2011 at 1:24 pm
This reminds me of the Crates in Team Fortress 2. You might get Strange weapons, a hat or an ultra-rare Unusual hat. You just need to spend $2.50 at the Mann Co. Store for a key!
…
I’m not thrilled with that, either. So I’m not really all that pleased to see it here.
December 15, 2011 at 1:30 pm
These are a really, really, *really* bad idea.
December 15, 2011 at 2:00 pm
If I find a 70+ box I’ll probably store it on the off chance I pick up a key. Once I have one or two laying around, I’ll start chucking the rest. If I need the room, I’ll chuck them. It really doesn’t effect me one way or the other. I’m not sure why people are upset though.
December 15, 2011 at 3:26 pm
From what I can tell, people are upset because of what they’re advertising you can get from these boxes (IE rare mount for freeps, rare and new skins for creeps, etc.) and that for something that can involved a real world money sink, there’s a *chance* one of those might drop.
Not to mention the fact that for creeps, it involved PvEing, which we don’t go out there to do. So to actually spend hours to get something, *then* spend money to get a key to open it, and have it drop utter vendor trash is incredibly frustrating. Perhaps if the keys were 100TP a pop it might not be as bad, but it’s still a ridiculous situation.
It’s like telling someone: “if you find a needle in this field of haystacks, we’ll let you give us a dollar to pull a raffle ticket and maybe win a million bucks”.
December 15, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Whoops, that should be “weren’t 100TP a pop…”*
December 15, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Yes I understand all that but from what I understand they drop random stuff with a small chance for a mount or a creep PVP skin. It sounds a lot like a store exclusive mount or cosmetic except for the fact that I have an extremely small chance of finding a key and getting it for free. Since I will not buy the store exclusive mounts or cosmetics my only chance is the pre-sale lotto.
I am ok with people who have entirely too much money buying an exclusive mount or cosmetic. It is more money to run the game with. So I don’t see why this should upset me. If they start giving people a chance to get raid loot or a 1st age something then I will start getting a bit upset. I guess my perspective is just a bit different.
December 15, 2011 at 9:40 pm
But the point is even with the store item, it’s still a very rare chance that you’ll get the desired drop.
And maybe it’s not a huge deal with the PvE side of the game where you’re running around killing and looting mobs anyway, but that’s *not* the point of PvP. And the fact that we have to PvE for something desired is upsetting for the community.
December 16, 2011 at 9:43 am
I guess the short version is that it feels like gambling. For most items in the store you know exactly what you’re getting. In this case, you do not. They even admit that a bug is making it give out pink dyes lol
It personally rubs me the wrong way in general. It’s one of the few things on the store that I think actually gives a bad message and makes me worried about future items on it.
December 15, 2011 at 2:19 pm
This reminds me of Valve’s Team Fortress 2′s random crate drops that require Mann Co. Store purchased keys to open. It does not guarantee good rewards and leaves out free players and I am pretty bummed that Turbine is going in this direction.
December 15, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Forgot to mention that I know that keys can drop from world mobs, which is nice.
December 15, 2011 at 3:53 pm
I’m hoping the “what’s in the box?” is not a reference to UHF, that could be insulting >.>
December 15, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Great reference
“Nothing!”
December 15, 2011 at 4:27 pm
I admit to being a store-[fill in the rhyming word*], but this is ridiculous. I will not be buying any keys. It only encourages them.
____________________
*starts with “wh”
December 15, 2011 at 5:14 pm
You’re seeing it in the store because its a proven marketing strategy. People are curious, impulsive buyers and for every ‘burned’ customer is a new to game player who doesnt know better. If there IS a rare mount drop from the box and its posted in the forums then you will see the price from the keys soar in the AH. It will be the go-to brag item of the moment.
In short, its here cuz it works. Like all their shop items, its driven by us the consumers. wont go away till we quit buying them. which wont happen.
Since Turbine is now a Warner Brother acquisition, the bottom line is running the game. They sold their soul (for a fat wad of cash, mind you) and we can only vote with our subscriptions or patronage of the new product.
December 15, 2011 at 6:33 pm
This is just plain wrong. No store item should ever be a random chance ‘reward’. If you spend TP, you must know exactly what your getting and then decide if it’s worth the TP. Upto now, this has been the case, but not anymore. As if the relic removal scroll wasn’t bad enough, this is a whole new level of greed from Turbine, so please don’t support this downward spiral and never buy a key.
December 15, 2011 at 9:11 pm
The time/money it took to concoct and create the reality of this stupidity would have been better spent elsewhere. The disgusting feeling of this whole system needs no explanation, only a reaction – it getting gone.
December 15, 2011 at 10:13 pm
I completely agree with Goldenstar on the “gambling” sense behind this move by Lotro. I have to say I’m very disappointed to see such blatant and shameless greed on the part of Lotro, and I’m not going to spend a dime on a key.
However, I do think there is a way Lotro could fix the system behind Lockboxes which I think would be far more beneficial and satisfactory to players, and in turn, Lotro.
Read my post on the Lotro forums and please comment if you like it!
Link: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?436226-Turbine-s-Pitiful-Failure-With-the-Lockboxes-and-How-They-Can-Fix-It
December 16, 2011 at 3:41 am
yes, completely agree, both with it being gambling and with the Zynga comparison (although i’d made the comparison with ‘terrible f2p games’ myself: the very sort i’d been really pleased that LOTRO wasn’t).
Really, the lockboxes are just terrible; an appalling addition to the game that will a: generate additional revenue; and b: generate additional ill-will. but i thought the whole point of the Turbine F2P model was that it avoided the worst excesses of the ‘other’ f2p games: the ones that sacrificed game integrity and quality on the altar of revenue extraction. adding a gambling element to LOTRO confirms all the fears anyone might have had about the integrity of the game, unfortunately.
in contrast, my wife said ‘i have 10K Turbine pts, what does 100TP matter?’, but then i pointed out our daughter, who’d just opened an entire advent calendar she’d just bought, hoping she might have won something….
i know that i’m strongly anti-gambling, and that most people aren’t, but still, the lockboxes really sadden me to see
December 16, 2011 at 11:47 am
This is my first free to play game so I really have no experience with others but based on the other comments, this seems to be a common practice in other F2P models.
December 16, 2011 at 9:51 am
Good responses here.
On some level I’m kind of just hoping this was pushed by the marketing department and they’re giving it a try despite evidence to the contrary. I just find it hard to believe that this had 100% buy-in in the company as a whole.
I work for a very large company and without getting into details, we maintain and expand upon an extremely large suite of websites used by hundreds of thousands of students regularly.
And even in that case, every other day there’s a push from marketing or another department that has really no relation to design or development. They have things they have to worry about and they make suggestions and demands. Sometimes these things wind up going over our heads and are instituted despite what the actual development team wants.
That’s why I’m a little bothered when someone says “they’re wasting resources on this when they could be fixing bugs!”. I totally understand your point and where you’re coming from, but it just doesn’t usually work that way. My experience is that the people implementing and conceptualizing stuff like that (such as 50/100TP keys) are very different parts of a company.
It’s annoying and I’m not pleased with Turbine in general. I guess I’m just not yet willing to paint the whole company with a wide brush and say they’re all greedy, soulless people. The game was ALWAYS driven by bottom line. F2P wasn’t a bad move in general, but they’re making some bad decisions along the way that I hope they’ll reverse if public opinion is strong enough.
December 16, 2011 at 9:58 am
One thing that strikes me too is that these seem to only be available in monster play. The only people in there are either VIP or (I assume far less likely) have dropped decent sums of money on specific monster classes.
It seems like a sleazy way to try and get some more money out of VIP players in that sense.
December 16, 2011 at 10:34 am
Actually, now I’m hearing they’re available in areas other than the Moors — so strike that comment.
December 17, 2011 at 3:42 am
Well gambling with $1 is not too bad. I Played other RPG and MMORPG games where actually gambling on boxes is worth of up to $10 and some boxes are even more expensive. However the fact that these LootBoxs and their keys are so rare and a very surprizing to find makes this gambling completely not worth spending 100 TBs on it because the idea of gambling is “minor losses make major wining” so whats the point of gambling over a box you may find once in life?!
January 28, 2012 at 2:38 am
Troll bane, drake cleaver====these are two scrolls that i got, tier 2. I dont know much about it, but i would guess it wasnt worth buying the key. i was hoping for that special horse, but if this is whats coming…pfft
im 64, it was a 60-69 lockbox. I think its sad that this is all that came of it.
January 28, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Thank you GS. I can now happily reject turbine’s Steel-bound loot box and go on with my Middle-earthing.
March 5, 2012 at 3:43 am
I recently got a Worn Symbol of the Elder King from a lootbox! Creeps on my server aren’t happy!
March 11, 2012 at 9:42 pm
So not worth it, 110TP for 15 Barrow Downs Coins.