When I got my Champion to level 75 I was excited. I finally felt that I could get my weekly dungeon group going and that soon I would be able to do some raids with my kinship. Now, while I am not the most hardcore of players I still like to have my character reach a certain level of requirements when he enters a group; doubly so when it comes to a raid. So when I saw that my kinship was going to put together a Draigoch raid I was super excited… Until I saw the requirements1:
- Level 75
- Read the Draigoch guide
- Completed the quests to open the raid (unlock in Galtrev at level 75)
- 5,000 Morale unbuffed. It’s recommended non-squishies stack this higher if they can.
- 10,000 Morale for Tanks unbuffed
- 1,000 in your class’s primary stat
- 9s in your virtues you’ll be using
- Level 75 LI for primary weapon
- Morale/Power Potions & Regen Food. Scrolls/Tokens from those who can make them would be handy.
So going down the list I found that most of these requirements were very easily obtained. I was already level 75, I had over 5,000 morale, I could easily complete the intro quest, with a few modifications to my armor and Virtues I had over 1,000 Might, and I could get a level 75 Legendary Item from the Auction House and level it up quickly through some Item Experience Runes I had been saving. But Virtues? That might be a bit of a rough spot considering that I tried as hard as possible to level quickly without focusing on completing Deeds. So I set out to discover what Virtues would best serve my Champion (in a DPS role) and what Deeds I would need to complete to raise them.
Planning
First off, let me give a big kudos to Ten Ton Hammer’s LOTRO Deeds and Virtues Guide – Heavy Armor Edition if for no other reason that having a great list of what Deeds raise Virtues and the best spots to grind them. I had checked several other places before looking here and found them to be disappointingly outdated. But with this list I was able to get a good idea of what I wanted for my Virtues and where I needed to go. However, as I picked my first Virtue to grind (Discipline) and started reading the list my heart started to sink.
I started looking at some of the deeds on the list and scratched off items such as Moria’s Arms of the Watcher and Angmar’s Champions of Urugarth (final) due to their (theoretical) time and (possible) group requirements. So, with a plan in mind and my club in hand, I decided first to take on Bree-land’s Sickle-fly Slayer Deed and start on my journey of ranking up my Discipline to 12! I could see my end goal in sight!
And an hour later I was bored to tears and I still hadn’t completed the deed. A half an hour after that my Deed was completed and I was a little frustrated at how long the endeavor took. More than a bit concerned how long it was going to take to actually get to rank 12 of Discipline, let alone 5 other virtues. I then promptly moved my character to the Lone-lands and logged off. Later that weekend I logged in and after running a couple of dungeons with some kinmates I decided to dive into killing Bog-lurkers in the Lone-lands it and utterly hated all one-and-a-half hours of it.
And this is where it came into my mind how I think a lot of Slayer Deeds fall short.
- First, Slayer Deeds requires you to kill anywhere from 120-450 mobs depending on the deeds and whether or not you need to do the first rank of the deed as well, which is a lot. I mean, really… 450 from start to finish? That’s insane! Who said that I would have any more time or more desire to grind deeds just because I’m in a higher level area?
- Secondly, many of these mobs have no area where they are heavily concentrated with a high spawn rate resulting in a lot of running around and/or waiting for spawns. And lord forbid that someone else shows up trying to kill the same thing not only increasing your time invested, but your level of frustration.
- And lastly, these two combined equal in to some long, uneventful, and painfully boring play sessions that I have found either have me not wanting to build up my alt or leaving little to no desire to play at all.
To Be (Somewhat) Fair
But let’s be fair, there are some mitigating factors that can be taken into account when grinding out slayer deeds. First, skirmishes can be a blessing. A number of the skirmishes, if repeated enough times, will allow you to earn slayer deeds for their associated area. The down side is that not all mobs are equally represented possibly making certain deeds a bit ineffective to grind this way. And when it comes down to it running skirmishes over and over again still results in a grind.
Also, not all the deeds are horrible. The Slayer Deed for killing spiders in Ered Luin was very, very easy to complete and the Tomb Raider deed in Evendim was also very agreeable for me. But considering that I had just spent several hours in Sarnur killing beasts and I was then able to run outside and complete the spider deed in less than twenty minutes I couldn’t help but see a horrible disparity between the two. And as I sat there watching the Turbine Points roll in from completing the spider dee
d I wondered who all decided that it was all right to kill only 90 spiders, but that you’d need 450 kills for Sarnur’s Master of Beasts; the only difference in rewards being a different title and +2100 Reputation for Thorin’s Hall (from the Sarnur deed).
You can also use Slayer Deed Accelerators to reduce your time. But even as willing as I am to throw my Turbine Points into the wind I find them to be expensive when compared against the amount of time they grant the bonus and the number of mobs within the area I’m patrolling.
Perhaps if I could grind 2-3 slayer deeds utilizing one Deed Accelerator I would find them to be more of a benefit, but after utilizing them several times in different areas I ended up with the feeling that I had wasted my money. But I’d be lying if I said I didn’t look at my kill count for a deed from time to time and think “I could be done by now if I had just spent the Turbine Points.”
What Now?
So what am I going to do now? I honestly don’t know.
I have a number of alts I want to get through Moria and into Isengard, I still want to get my Guardian to level 75, and I have a lot of crafting to skill complete; so I’m not short on stuff to do. But it’s still aggravating to spend all that time leveling my Champion, gearing him up, and then hit a wall. And not just any wall, but a wall that involves either spending Turbine Points and/or countless boring hours of gameplay which cannot be offset through any other means than either chatting in game or an external source such as Netflix or a DVD. And all I can think is that this cannot be the way that Turbine intended to design their game. Isn’t this kind of old-school thinking that the game industry is trying to move a way from?
Granted, Turbine did a great job with the Isengard Slayer Deeds which flow well into the questing and storyline to the point where you were able to complete most of them during the duration of your leveling, but that’s still only a minor percentage of the game. And while I have every hope that they will continue with this design as the game progresses, what about all the old zones that make up the majority of the game? So in my opinion yes, Slayer and possibly other types of Deeds need a revamp and preferably the sooner the better. What about you? What do you think?
- Note: Now before we have some people go into whether or not these are the actual requirements for Draigoch or not, please understand that I am using this a vehicle to tell my story, not to focus on. So while yes, I could probably go into the group with or without some/all of these being true; and no I don’t think it’s elitist to ask me to pass on the raid due to not meeting the requirements (because I’m pretty sure if there was an open spot they’d let me go anyway); this is merely what got me looking closely at my alt’s Deeds. ↩
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December 16, 2011 at 10:11 am
I’d love to see a few changed, but thus far, I’ve had no problem leveling deeds as I level with minimal grind. Some are easy to complete with skirmishes, though I dont skirmish often. I’d most like to see a revamp of slayer deeds that are just a total annoyance, such as, bog lurkers in Lone Lands.
December 16, 2011 at 10:12 am
I am so incredibly in agreement with you on this one. I have had to spend many boring hours grinding deeds. On the plus side, I used this time to get through at least three seasons of Buffy. But playing LOTRO should be enjoyable and engaging enough that I don’t have to watch TV while playing to prevent boredom. Let’s start a letter writing campaign to make Turbine change it!!! (LOL JKJK)
December 16, 2011 at 10:12 am
Deeds are the main reason I’ve given up on my little guardian alt. I love him and he’s fun to play. I enjoy tanking with him and just basically being a little ball of impenetrable armor. . .
That being said I just don’t have the energy to do all of those deeds again, especially in the level band where they want you to kill 450 of them.
December 16, 2011 at 10:14 am
I love slayer deeds. But then again I played EverQuest for several years so I might have a different take on this.
However the Slayer Deeds Acceleration potions are almost a must have. If you out level the mobs by a large margin it takes about 1 hour, so one potion, to do the Advanced Slayer Deed and the prerequired (not advanced) Slayer Deed. Sometimes less. The other day it took me two hours to do 3 Advanced Slayer Deeds and two regular Slayer deeds, and two potions.
I’m 65 and already have all my deeds above 9. I think the trick is not to try and do them all at once. Do a couple, then move on to your usual Middle Earth life for a few days.
One is troublesome though (I think it’s Valour) where most of the deeds require you to kill Trolls. Since they are always elite, it can take a while even if you out level them greatly.
December 16, 2011 at 10:24 am
Valour is okay. Its Zeal that requires trolls a lot. Other than then Goblins in Ered Luin. Merric you will need Zeal so I would suggest going for the Bulwark of the Enemy deed in Moria first its +2 Zeal and only requires you to find six locations spread out in Moria. It took me about 20 mins to find all the places.
December 16, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Thanks Osolep. Yeah, Zeal is on my list of ones to grind. I’ll definitely take on the Bulwark one for sure.
December 16, 2011 at 2:36 pm
Wood trolls count as trolls. You can farm plenty in Trollshaws.
December 16, 2011 at 2:49 pm
And Eregion.
December 16, 2011 at 1:12 pm
I agree that they can be done and that the accelerators make them a lot more feasible, but I am still not sure that spending TP is a route I want to go. Maybe after Christmas if I get some TP cards.
December 16, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Watch the AH. Some people get slayer deed accelerators that are not BoA and put them up for sale. I managed to get r12 virtues on my RK without them, but for my other two alts the grind was just too tedious. I also have a problem with spending turbine points to earn turbine points, so this was a happy medium since in-game gold is fairly easy to stack up if you’re conservative.
December 30, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Having to buy stuff in the store to endure something that’s supposed to be a fun hobby seems kind of.. like an asian grind mmo. And definately not fun
December 16, 2011 at 10:16 am
Slayer deed definately suck. After completing them with one character the thought of doing it with my remaining alts is just bad. The positive I try to take out of it is that I am also getting gold, crafting mats (possibly), and if the mobs are close to level a chance to work on my class deeds. I do have a tonne of 2x slayer scrolls but bought them for 50% off, I rarly use them though because it is hard to find good spots to farm mobs. Also, if there is a class that I think would excel at completing these deeds fast it would be the Champ.
December 16, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Yes! Though slayer deeds are rarely fun (concur on bog lurkers in LL) a champion can tear through a densely populated area of low-level mobs. Sarnur beasts and dwarves fell very quickly to my champ’s shing shing while I was also grinding rep for the goat.
December 16, 2011 at 10:18 am
As a fellow altoholic sufferer, with mulitple capped characters, I am with you all the way Merric. On your first character or two its new, and you feel you are working towards something, so its tolerable, even fun occasionally. After that, you are just looking to bring yourself up to par with your fellows and it is no fun at all.
The only joy we have had is doing level 54 School and Librariy deed runs at level (65 orginally) 75 with a couple of friends, seeing how few pulls we can complete in the instance in (with a few champs it is hilarious).
December 16, 2011 at 10:26 am
I agree totally. These slayer deeds are the opposite of fun. The grind for discipline is pretty awful too.
I haven’t been able to come up with an alternative method for grinding virtue deeds though. Maybe tie more of them to quests, or just reduce the number of worms you need to kill in Angmar.
[derail] (You might be better off if you didn’t prioritize Discipline; its grind is one of the worst. The fancy armour you get in Galtrev has 122 might on each piece, which also requires a grind, but skirmish raids are more fun than killing hundreds of grey mobs, and they have other rewards too. For Draigoch, I’d go for Zeal, Innocence, Compassion, Valour, or Loyalty, since he doesn’t do any tactical damage. Or wisdom: champions have low power pools now and the extra 100 power you get from this is pretty significant.)[/derail]
December 16, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Thanks for the tip on the virtues. I admit I’m a bit inexperienced when it comes to Virtues so I really appreciate it!
December 16, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Glad to help, but don’t take my word as gospel!
December 16, 2011 at 10:26 am
The bog lurker and sickle-fly slayer deeds are the absolute worst. I always start with
1. Exploration deeds
2. Slayer deeds that involve lots of low level mobs bunched together tightly.
Deeds where the mobs I want share spawn tables with other mobs I don’t want, or are spread out I save for last.
December 16, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Sickle flies aren’t that bad. In The Shire, there’s a hill near Stock where they spawn pretty quickly. In Bree-land, go to the Eastern Bree Fields, where they meet Far Chetwood (up near the lake). A lot more flies spawn there, and there are rarely people running around.
There is no remedy for the bog-lurker deed in Lone Lands except a deed accelerator. The best area is in Agamaur, but the lurkers can often be stealthed. I ended up finishing it rather easily.
December 16, 2011 at 10:32 am
Find people to go deeding with.
It is faster, and more fun in a group.
Only problem is this won’t work for the deeds that are hard because the mobs are hard to find.
Altho most virtues have more than 12 deeds that earn them, so you can be a little picky about which ones you do.
Don’t assume just because you need less Bog Lurkers in the lone Lands it’s easier than some other where you need to kill double the mobs.
December 16, 2011 at 10:35 am
I personally don’t think they should be nerfed so to speak. A little re-balancing would be nice though for some of them. In your case here Discipline is a terrible one to grind (did it on my Warden). They shouldn’t make it so some are absolutely terrible and others are pretty much cake to get.
December 16, 2011 at 10:37 am
One thing we do is pick a night to group and work on slayer deeds. Some of the bigger ones go a lot quicker when you can round up several at a time and have the group pound them.
December 16, 2011 at 10:40 am
I think one thing Kins can do in general to help this is have Slayer Deed nights. Even if you go after on-level enemies… with a group of 6 you can easily handle any normal enemy encampment. That deed will go by a LOT more quickly. As Jonras has mentioned, there are ones worth skipping entirely in groups (or even solo, honestly) — but with all the new areas there are multiple ways to hit max Virtues.
Usually what I see happening is someone asks in chat (in any kin I’ve been in, not one specific) and maybe one or two people are on who are interested. If these things were attempted to be scheduled ahead of time I think it would really mitigate a LOT of the grindy feel. Plus if they’re not gray, you’re also getting XP AND (potentially) skill deeds done.
I personally would really love to see that scheduled in more in any Kin I’m in. Maybe I just need to be proactive and do it myself.
For solo, I’m more or less happy with my approach. I don’t go out of my way to kill enemies for Slayer Deeds until they’re well into the grays. That way you can show up and really just slaughter everything. I’m sure it annoys players of the appropriate level, but I suppose they could always group with me and enjoy the benefits lol
December 16, 2011 at 12:13 pm
The best thing about groups doing deeds? Everyone’s kills count! So you can breeze through any of them faster (unless it’s just a very low spawn rate)
December 16, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Yup, exactly.
December 16, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Since this has been a commons suggestion, maybe I will put something like that together.
December 19, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Do you know how far you can be from fellowship members and get credit for the kill?
December 16, 2011 at 10:40 am
I have only been back ingame a few weeks but can’t you buy virtue points in the store? If so good luck on getting the deeds revamped to be easier.
Just saying
December 16, 2011 at 10:46 am
Slayer deeds are a pain in the rear end. Every single time. I tried every approach you can have, but it just doesn’t get any better. It’s almost bareable if you have a hunter at your side. Almost.
I think a great reduction in numbers would suffice. Where’s the big deal in reducing all slayer deeds to 30/60? or 50/100 I’d take that as well.
And now to something completely different:
Turbine did a great job in performance management with Isengard. In comparison to the before Isengard times I now enjoy 100% laggy Areas, more freeze frames than ever before and constant frustration whenever I log into the game. Just wanted to say thank you, Turbine for making this wonderful game a pain in the ass to play.
My online times significantly dropped since Isengard.
December 16, 2011 at 12:35 pm
What’s worse is that later in the game they start being 150/300. I wouldn’t mind a decrease there lol
December 16, 2011 at 11:17 am
To answer your question….Does the Pope wear two silly hats?
December 16, 2011 at 11:45 am
I’d like to see some sort system that rewards folks with many alts. I didn’t mind the grind as much my first time but it does wear after a few alts get leveled.
I think something like this maybe:
If you have one level 75 char with a 10 or above in a given virtue your next character should get 10% off the number of mobs needed for those virtue deed on your next alt. Maybe they could stack a few times to 30-50% max.
Another idea is to give each of your alts one virtue level for ever five your main earned.
I do think you should have to work for them, I just think the grind could be offset a bit after you have put in the time. I suspect they make quite a bit of coin from accelerators though. . .
December 16, 2011 at 1:18 pm
I like this tact. I too agree that they shouldn’t just “give” them out to everyone, because that would make them less valuable. But some kind of the compromises you suggest are a good idea.
December 16, 2011 at 11:46 am
i also agree, the order of magnitude that slayer deeds grow to is rather silly, especially considering that there is such a glut of similarly leveled content in different zones. I am leveling an RK in Evendim right now, and since the revamp to that zone I have had no need to set foot inside of Trollshaws or most of the North Downs. I’ve been able to move from 31-39 without leaving the zone and still have a bunch left to do there, so I have made absolutely no progress on deeds in those other regions. And there are likely many other areas of imbalance around level 50, 60, and 65, where the content was piled up around level cap, and now that the cap is moved, we don’t spend nearly so much time in those places.
December 16, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Good insight. That’s been my experience as well. I won’t be visiting some zones until mobs are grey enough for rapid slaughter.
December 16, 2011 at 12:00 pm
I periodically set aside time to work on grinding slayer deeds so it won’t be overwhelming later, like it was for my main.
It also helps to have a friend, or advertise in GLFF that you want to work on slayer deeds and team up. Heck, I’ll even team up with lower levels who are questing in the same area just so we won’t be competing for kills.
December 16, 2011 at 12:02 pm
I think the problem with the slayer deeds right now is pointed out with what you said about the new Isengard ones – you got them mostly done leveling. With as many zones for each level as are out there now, the zones you actually level through, you complete or get a good start on the deeds as you level up. However, we have so many choices now that no one does every zone, and if you skirm at all, you’ll outlevel zones before you finish them. My LM did all of Ered Luin, skipped most of Bree, did all of Lonelands but didn’t touch North Downs, etc. And as bad as the slayer deeds are, the “do all quests in this zone one” are worse…I just had to go back and do all the Shire quests. All 75 of them.
While the current numbers maybe made sense when the level cap was 50 and people actually ran Barad Gularan for real, they don’t now. They really should just face reality and reduce the numbers for the slayer deeds.
It would also have been nice if they had attached virtues to the Isengard deeds equally – if you look at the list of them, some virtues (say, Charity) are obtained by multiple deeds and others (say, Zeal) by none. That would have helped those now leveling to 75 to not have to go back and do as much grinding.
December 16, 2011 at 1:21 pm
I noticed that about Zeal in Isengard. I thought that was pretty weird and I would have liked to have known why they chose that. I thought grinding Zeal with my Guardian was just awful.
December 16, 2011 at 2:16 pm
2 ranks of innocence is worth a lot of pie and mail deliveries. It takes about the same time and is more scenic than running around eastern LL aimlessly hoping to flush out elusive bog lurkers.
December 16, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Kinship vent + a bottle of whiskey on a Friday night and slayer deeds go by no problem. For those of you hobbits under 21, well, try Red Bull I guess.
December 16, 2011 at 1:21 pm
LOL, drunken deed nights would be awesome.
December 16, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Well my main is 62 and the virtues I use are 6-7-9-10-11, with several other virtues I don’t use almost capped and others that are 3-4. Discipline is 6 and I never bothered leveling it, it just went up.
I strongly recommend to level them up before the cap (well I know it’s late for you
) since first, you need them and second, you won’t need to grind a ton of deeds at the same time. Completing deeds while leveling makes it less boring, you can choose mobs that also drop rep items to do two things at a time too.
Second thing you should consider is teaming up, I often see someone in glff who is LFF for skumfil’s kergrim’s deed or angmar’s worms one for example. There’s plenty of people who get bored raising deeds and would like to join a group to speed up things. Also, think about running instances, you can probably solo urugarth with a 75 champ!
Some of the deeds are a real pain (don’t think I’ll ever complete LL’s bog lurker one) but most of them are quite easy to complete and won’t bore you too much if you go deed hunting from time to time only.
December 16, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Definitely some good tips that I will keep in mind on my next alt
December 16, 2011 at 12:14 pm
I have to agree Merric. These deeds are a daunting and a very big grind. However in the end, for your main, I will say they are more than worth it. However, if you are not intending on raiding or doing t2 cm of the new instances on your alts, which I do not, I would just asume let the deeds get done when they get done, put on an up-beat atitude, a striking smile, a slick cosmetic, and do what I do with my hunter alt, go anonymous and forget about the low ranks!
December 16, 2011 at 12:33 pm
Let me guess, are you a VIP member? If you were F2P or Premium at the time you reach levle 75 you have a great amount of deeds up to date…
December 16, 2011 at 1:24 pm
I am, and that’s a really good point.
December 16, 2011 at 4:36 pm
This is very true. I was f2p for a while, and now I’m premium. I have a crew of alts who run around completing deeds for the TPs. I’m always on the lookout for slayer deeds that are only 50 or so kills away from completion so I can finish them off, and earn my way to another skirmish or quest pack unlock. The virtues are almost always an after-thought. My main got to level cap and I just picked the ones I happened to have above 10 that looked most useful, and it worked out quite nicely.
December 16, 2011 at 12:33 pm
Just curious… What is that armor set you are wearing?
December 16, 2011 at 1:25 pm
It’s actually all a mish-mash of different pieces of armor I got through questing in Isengard.
December 16, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Not gonna lie, that’s an awesome look you’ve got going! I want that for my RK!
December 16, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Hope you stick with it Merric, I love my 75 Champ
December 16, 2011 at 1:26 pm
So far I am! I’m just trying to take it one deed at a time.
December 16, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Yes. Yes yes yes. For the love of everything, yes.
Really, my issue is the large numbers needed in the previous endgame zones. I understand that they were part of the old endgame content, thus it was necessary to have big numbers needed. That’s where everyone would have been at after all… However, now that they are no longer endgame, having a total of 450 Angmarim in Angmar needed for the deed? Yeah, it’s kinda of silly.
December 16, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Also use lotro-wiki.com as a source for good coordinates to do deeds. I have grinded 2 75s in a row now in the last 2 months and feel your pain, my friend. It’s a good thing to check and make sure the ones you can obtain through discovery and exploration like that bulwarks one, and also all the ones in the starter zones too. Still you will probably have to hit up some 150/300 deeds… it is boring for sure. Especially when you watch movies and stuff on the same laptop you game on, haha. And my raiding kin requires 11-12 on virtues so I had to basically do a full grind, since I level my toons as fast as possible with no real attention paid to grinding, I was at 2 or 3 on some virtues I needed to grind for 10 ranks!
December 16, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Yes.
I would prefer a different strategy:
-Divide the deeds in to genus. That is, have a deed for Trolls, Giants, Ancient Evil (Morreval, etc), Orcs, Goblins, Uruks, Beasts (wolves, wargs, bears), Spiders and insects, the Dead, etc.
-Kills only count if they are within your current level range.
-Every 75 kills increases a virtue. I’m not sure there are enough genus types to support a 1:1 deed:virtue, so some of the deeds can alternate between two different virtues, or some of the exploration deeds can be used, as well as deeds for completing quests (not just quests in a region, but overall quests completed).
-The virtue deeds are tracked on the class/race/social tab of the deed log. A new “virtues” category can be created.
-Additional virtues can be offered for completed deeds in instances, etc.
Titles are separate and optional, keeping to pretty much the same structure they have now.
Just my $0.02.
December 16, 2011 at 3:33 pm
i have done all slayers deeds in the game, virtues are 12(15) that means i have them in level 15 but the game can only handle 12 of them.
Slayer deeds are perfect, you are just LAZY, and that’s the only word that should make a good briefing of this entire thread
, LAZY.
December 16, 2011 at 3:52 pm
@Saelyth: Interesting point of view. Let me give you a different: while some of us were being lazy avoiding a boring grind (deed grinding) you were being lazy avoiding another: studying for a test, walking your dog, working to support your family, volunteering in your community, etc. We’re all lazy about something.
December 16, 2011 at 4:12 pm
I have completed every landscape deed in the game that I know of, except the lothlorien battle deeds and the advanced dunland Warg-slayer deed (which I’ve almost completed). Most of my virtues are 15, but some are ranked as high as 19. I hardly think I’m lazy, but doing all that on one toon was quite enough, thank you very much.
I simply refuse to do it again; on my alts, I’m targeting the appropriate virtue and just doing the related deeds.
December 16, 2011 at 3:51 pm
I agree, there are some deeds that are just painfully painful to do. I do wish the numbers weren’t so high at the upper levels. The lower levels do go fast though, especially with an accelerator.
I also agree with those who have said you have to space them out so you don’t go crazy. There’s nothing worse than grind after grind after grind.
December 16, 2011 at 5:05 pm
I think your kin is being a bit strict. Anything you’re likely to slot for Draigoch (which is very easy) is going to be stuff adding to your morale, might, vit… but you’ve got that covered it seems. Now I can see the point of having defensive virtues up high, like when tolerance was good… but that was a really easy one to get mainly with exploring.
But yeah, I really dislike the virtue stuff. :/ Slayer deeds are horrid and need to be rethought.
December 16, 2011 at 6:31 pm
To be honest, I don’t.
•Level 75
You can’t do the raid at level 74 or less.
•Read the Draigoch guide
Yes, it could be optional, but researching the instance before you do it just makes sense, in that the player at least has an idea of what the raid is all about. I do think, however, that relying solo on a guide is a bad idea: the leader needs to communicate during the raid.
•Completed the quests to open the raid (unlock in Galtrev at level 75)
You can’t do the raid if haven’t done the discovery quest.
•5,000 Morale unbuffed. It’s recommended non-squishies stack this higher if they can.
I attempted the Isengard Foundry in a kin group, but the healer only had 36K morale. We couldn’t do it in large part because she kept getting one-shotted by the first boss. As soon as the healer went down, the tank and off-tank quickly followed. After being beat down to dust repeatedly, we decided to do a different instance, and used the IF to get into Thadur. It was a repeat of the Foundry. It was obvious the healer needed to work on her toon a bit.
The stat changes with RoI have really changed the game for us squishies. Many of our items stack tons of will but little vitality, and many of us have had our morale/power pool actually decrease in comparison to what they were at level 65. As a result, we can often hit hard, but cannot take hits well. Good morale often means a more robust character – and not just because you can take more damage, but also because you can mitigate that damage.
•10,000 Morale for Tanks unbuffed
I’ve seen him hit the tank for 6-7K at a time (not sure if there’s distributed damage up there – but the tank is getting the full force of the dragon’s head). The guy simply needs as much morale as he can get.
•1,000 in your class’s primary stat
See my comments on RoI stat changes above.
Until I hit this mark (and bumped my finesse up), I was getting really, really frustrated with my LM. Those Woodcutters in Nan Curunir? Yeah – I could handle one at best (even using CC skills). Since I’ve earned the Draigoch set and better jewelry, I can take on the MoBs and barely break a sweat.
•9s in your virtues you’ll be using
I think they’re being generous. IMO, by the time you attempt an end-game raid, the virtues should be capped (not necessarily all virtues, just the ones you equip).
•Level 75 LI for primary weapon
LIs are too easy to pick up to not have one on-level. If you don’t pick one up, they are easy to craft. There’s no excuse not to be using one on-level.
•Morale/Power Potions & Regen Food. Scrolls/Tokens from those who can make them would be handy.
This is just good sense. You should always have pots, food, & tokens on you, regardless of whether you’re running a raid or not. Scrolls make life easier, too.
December 16, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Why do i suddenly feel like grinding virtues?
December 16, 2011 at 9:58 pm
In fact the slayer deed system is very well done, and it would be such a mistake to change it, because it is much more complex than it looks.
If they touch that, they will have to revamp the grind for the skills too.
Rethink the way you handled the game Merric, because you didn’t follow the clear signs that the devs gave us. Believe me, there is in that game, much more intelligence put into it than you think. And when you’ll get all the point, you’ll discover how nice is the mechanic and why it would be stupid to change anything to it.
December 16, 2011 at 10:27 pm
I always hated the Discipline and Determination grinds. They actually require the virtue in real life lol. In general, I will do one a day for a while, though I did do 35 deeds over three days (which I wrote about). Painful stuff, but chatting with the kin and doing group runs makes it easier. Champs have an easier time, I’ve found, because I will just target everything in the area and auto attack with my bow and bring them close, then aoe them down. The 35 deeds were on my captain, which was not fun at all lol. One enemy at a time…
December 16, 2011 at 11:50 pm
Brood-Hunter 150 spider kills for a title, Brood-Hunter(Advanced) 300 spider kills for Zeal+1. All spider kills must be in the little Barrow of Taradan in the Barrow Downs, in competition with lots of other players.
Good times
December 18, 2011 at 6:36 am
.. In competition with other players… Did you think about to purpose them to create a fellowship?
By using the word competition, in a MMORPG where there is just one faction, I’ll say RPG would be more adapted for you because you are too solo for LotRO.
It is just an advice.
Look, I was in the same situation as you for the Bog lurkers 2 weeks ago, 2 guys where doing the circuit, I thought immediatly : yay I’m lucky there are other people, I contacted them and it took us an half of the time needed to finish that slayer deed.
Now if you really like that game, change your mind first before asking to change the game.
I know how to do those deeds with no pain:
1- do the deeds as soon you have the level to do them, don’t leave the zone before you finished all of them, even those you’ll never use, because that’s the best way to get Turbine Points
2- Start always with the deed that needs you to do quests in the area, you’ll explore and kill mobs needed by other deeds by the way, 30% less work doing that way.
3- When leveling, that’s the major income of gold (money). Except if your farming resources to sale them.
4- It provides the items for the daily quests. Apart from the fancy titles, it’s a welcome booster for the Reputations with different factions. Use the add-on BusyBee, be happy.
5- Killing same mobs gives the opportunity to work your skill rotation, manage skill cost, get some SKILL! Uh the captain up there who takes one target at a time when the captain is better handling multiple targets? Believe me a lot of people do not know how to play their class in this game, they think they know how, but they don’t, and then they ask after to adapt the game to them, not to adapt themselves to the game.
6- You’ll do your skill deeds at the same time, it’s very IMPORTANT, because it can be done only on mobs of your level or higher.
7- Best way to get crafting recipes.
8- Purple items, pockets, etc are not that rare.
9- Skins! Oh btw, don’t ever group when you do beast’s slayer deed, if you don’t use those skins, they’ll sale for a lot of money at the AH.
Voila.
So do you see the time you loose by rushing 75 then going back grey killing mobs? The loss of time and money? You have to work harder for your reputations, virtues, skills, and there a good chance that you still do not know your class. Think twice and avoid , how do you say in English? Redundancy? You’ll avoid a third of the pain if not more.
Now for the alts: I advice to level by doing: book quests + the quests needed for the deeds (no more), and the deeds, point, no dungeons except for deeds, by the way you’ll learn how to team play your alt, no skirmishes, do craft without mastering it, build asap crafting guild reputation, equip your toon only with quest rewards, random drops, and your yellow craft, that’s really viable, don’t waste your time optimizing your stuff when leveling except if crafting and trading is your main goal in this game.
Once again, I played all the different classes, and did ALL deeds for all of them, it’s all a matter of organization, in doing those deeds, in handling targets, managing your power skill cost, bla bla bla bla.
In french we say then: Bon courage!
December 17, 2011 at 2:33 am
I agree, I’d like to see them reworked. As a solo player, who levelled up to 75 and found myself starting to sniff around the moors and groups, I realized I needed to polish up my virtues.
Which I really hadn’t been doing many of up to that point. Oh crud.
So, I did a few of the exploration deeds, then started on the slaying. Completed a couple over the period of a week, but felt so burnt out by it that I really haven’t logged in again since. I’d imagine it’s an even worse experience if you’re doing it for the ‘nth time on an alt.
I often think the numbers get larger as the levels get higher because of their value as TP generators (might help “guide” higher level players – likely already addicted to the game by that point – to subscribe, instead of grinding TP deeds). Perhaps they could change that around somehow. Keep the grind factor up for the TP, but lower it for the virtues (the virtue on the first tier of it, maybe? or something completely different).
December 17, 2011 at 2:40 am
On the Lone-Lands bog-lurker deed though: if I’m not mistaken, the bog lurkers become semi-plentiful in the Agamaur area (as I recall there’s one area of submerged/swampy ruins where they respawn regularly). Much faster than running around the pit hoping to bumped into one that’s cloaked.
December 17, 2011 at 9:02 am
The problem with the little Agamaur ruins area is that while the spawns are consistently lurkers, the respawn rate is low and they are all spread out. Enough so that one player that is overleveled doing a circuit of the place kills them all with none to spare.(they respawn just as they are coming back around again, no surplus spawns at all, and always one at a time since they are spread out. and it isn’t hard to kill your way through the circuit too quickly and then have to wait.)
Because its a highly needed virtue, there’s almost always someone out there competing with you and sadly not everyone will accept a group invite.
PS- you have to be overleveled to where they are grey so you can see the stealthed lurkers easily. To do so on-level where they are all hidden would be the worst exercise in frustration ever.
December 17, 2011 at 5:21 pm
I found a circuit of bog-lurkers in the far back of the Agamaur ruins. Sure you’re technically running in a big circle countless times, but every few feet you stop and kill one because it respawns before you get back to that part of the circle. In fact, by the end of the deed I knew exactly where to pause for the stealthed ones to appear for me
The circuit method – which I try to find for any slayer deed – doesn’t reduce the boredom, but it greatly improves efficiency.
December 17, 2011 at 9:16 am
I agree completely, Merric. The difference in difficulty of virtues is massive at times, and due to the skirmish system (and it gating the epic storyline), and multiple zones covering the same levels, it is hard not to bypass many of these needed virtues entirely while leveling. Thus presenting the dilemma of getting burned out on leveling lots of virtues from scratch.
Turbine obviously knows it is an issue, and instead of fixing it they use it as a TP up-sell opportunity. Deed accelerators and the virtues themselves are up for grabs in the store. I hate to cry conspiracy, but its hard to envision them doing anything about old content being imbalanced or poorly designed on deeds, when there is real money to be made selling shortcuts to players.
I’m an altoholic and this is the *ONE* thing that keeps me from doing end-game content with most of them. Your first time through, or two, isn’t as bad as when you’ve already done the deed multiple times before and the very thought of gearing up virtues on another alt makes you ponder your sanity.
A good Kin that does slayer deed groups occasionally can make *all* the difference in sanity. Even if it isn’t scheduled, just seeing it in kin chat makes me stop everything to think through which of my main characters needs the virtues and jump in.(cause invariably at least one of my alts needs it)
December 17, 2011 at 9:24 am
and by “A good Kin that does slayer deed groups” I mean that YOU send a kin message saying “I’m about to grind X for slayer deeds, anyone want in?” Don’t wait around for someone else to start it. You’d be surprised how people will come out of the woodwork for that.(unlike the response you get when someone asks “hey can someone come out here to nowhere-land to help me with a single quest?”) GLFF works for recruiting too if your kin isn’t around.
December 17, 2011 at 9:57 am
While not a slayer-deed issue, I do have a comment/question regarding the deeds.
1. Several of the deeds have changed, spedifically in Moria. For example, they are no longer Upper or Lower levels but zone specific. Moria: Defender of the Upper Levels no longer exists. But we do have Quests of the Great Delving and Quests of the Redhorn Lodes.
2. Therefore, I need an updated list for planning. Even the tentonhammer list is outdated. Does anyone have a link to a new, updated list of virtue deeds that has the Moria changes?
December 17, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I gave up on those deeds with my guardian, too. It just was too painful. The only toon which has ALL virtues up to rank 12 is my main (a lore-master).
December 17, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Oh HELL yes they need to revamp them! Jeez it’s the most boring part of the game and consequently the part that gets ignored most often. The disparity between the mob concentration is huge too. Take the racial traits to get the home ports: For Hobbits it’s spiders. There are loads of those in Scary in the mine that you can kill quickly because they’re only level 12 or so. For Elves it’s orcs, and those are in abundance at that level in that little bit between Bree and Trestlebridge. For men… Wargs. There’s nowhere where there’s really a concentration of those. Some people have said that the best place for them is Kingsfell, but those are on-level for when the deed opens, which leaves it a little unfair when other races can go kill lower level mobs and knock it out easily. Sorry, I don’t know what the Dwarf one is because I don’t have a Dwarf.
The virtue ones are just s bad. It’s soul destroying to have to kill so many mobs that may have a slow spawn rate in a non-concentrated area. And then you have to do it again, and again, and again, on every character.
It’s been suggested before on the forums that for every character that completes a slayer deed, then for the next one on the account there’s a small (say five percent) drop for how many they need to kill. So for example: My LM hs to kill 100 spiders for a deed. That means that once he’s completed it, my Minstrel then has to kill 95. Once she’s done, my burglar has to kill 90 (well, five percent of 95 is 4.75 but you can’t kill three quarters of an orc). By dropping the numbers it gives incentive to actually complete the deeds, and the grind lessens a little each time, which is very agreeable.
December 17, 2011 at 8:15 pm
In a nutshell that is the entire LoTR quest line excepting the epic line and a few others. Gather so many of this and bring to that person. Kill so many of that and bring to that person. Deeds just compound that to the ninth degree. If you are lucky you can combine deeds, with tasks , with the regular gather quests and kill three birds in one go. But that is rare.
I have brought three main toons up and If i have to kill another flipping wolf, fly, giant, boar, bear, bird I will just up and die.
done with it all.
December 18, 2011 at 4:34 am
I’ve never really loved grinding deeds, but I cant say I hate them. Some deeds should change (bog-lurkers etc) but overall I like how it works. However, one thing I would like to see changed is how the virtues are spread over the deeds. For example, I’ve always found my compassion maxed, even when the cap went up to 12. My Discipline, OTOH, is about 3. Kinda unbalanced…
Oh, and does anyone know the best deeds for a hunter in Draigoch? I currently use Charity, Compassion, Loyalty, Valour and Determination (not all capped) . Agility is just over 1000 and morale just over 5k. ty.
December 19, 2011 at 12:49 am
Zeal. With a side order of Zeal.
I have Compassion ,Innocence, Zeal, Valour and Determination. A good mix for mitigations as well as morale boosts and a little Agi thrown in! 
December 18, 2011 at 6:40 am
In competition with other players, doing deeds… That turns me…
Did you think about to purpose them to create a fellowship?
By using the word competition, in a MMORPG where there is just one faction, I’ll say RPG would be more adapted for you because you are too solo for LotRO.
It is just an advice.
Look, I was in the same situation as you for the Bog lurkers 2 weeks ago, 2 guys where doing the circuit, I thought immediatly : yay I’m lucky there are other people, I contacted them and it took us an half of the time needed to finish that slayer deed.
Now if you really like that game, change your mind first before asking to change the game.
I know how to do those deeds with no pain:
1- do the deeds as soon you have the level to do them, don’t leave the zone before you finished all of them, even those you’ll never use, because that’s the best way to get Turbine Points
2- Start always with the deed that needs you to do quests in the area, you’ll explore and kill mobs needed by other deeds by the way, 30% less work doing that way.
3- When leveling, that’s the major income of gold (money). Except if your farming resources to sale them.
4- It provides the items for the daily quests. Apart from the fancy titles, it’s a welcome booster for the Reputations with different factions. Use the add-on BusyBee, be happy.
5- Killing same mobs gives the opportunity to work your skill rotation, manage skill cost, get some SKILL! Uh the captain up there who takes one target at a time when the captain is better handling multiple targets? Believe me a lot of people do not know how to play their class in this game, they think they know how, but they don’t, and then they ask after to adapt the game to them, not to adapt themselves to the game.
6- You’ll do your skill deeds at the same time, it’s very IMPORTANT, because it can be done only on mobs of your level or higher.
7- Best way to get crafting recipes.
8- Purple items, pockets, etc are not that rare.
9- Skins! Oh btw, don’t ever group when you do beast’s slayer deed, if you don’t use those skins, they’ll sale for a lot of money at the AH.
Voila.
So do you see the time you loose by rushing 75 then going back grey killing mobs? The loss of time and money? You have to work harder for your reputations, virtues, skills, and there a good chance that you still do not know your class. Think twice and avoid , how do you say in English? Redundancy? You’ll avoid a third of the pain if not more.
Now for the alts: I advice to level by doing: book quests + the quests needed for the deeds (no more), and the deeds, point, no dungeons except for deeds, by the way you’ll learn how to team play your alt, no skirmishes, do craft without mastering it, build asap crafting guild reputation, equip your toon only with quest rewards, random drops, and your yellow craft, that’s really viable, don’t waste your time optimizing your stuff when leveling except if crafting and trading is your main goal in this game.
Once again, I played all the different classes, and did ALL deeds for all of them, it’s all a matter of organization, in doing those deeds, in handling targets, managing your power skill cost, bla bla bla bla.
In french we say then: Bon courage!
December 18, 2011 at 1:14 pm
I don’t know if this will help, but this how I go about doing my slayer deeds.
First I’ll just concentrate on the questlines. Once I’ve finished those I look at how many deeds I actually need to complete and where I am in completing them. Often times just doing the quests and instances will have me finishing the first tiers. When I’ve scoped out which deeds I need to finish I’ll work on the location ones first using http://dynmap.ruslotro.com/. Then I’ll start working on my slayer deeds.
First and formost I try never to do slaying alone. I’ll ask in kin if anyone needs to get such-and-such deed done or do an LFF in that region. Having two or three buddies helping you cuts the time down considerably and makes deeding a lot of fun. For instance, a friend of mine needed to kill worms in Angmar. We grabbed a dwarf gaurdian nearby and went to town. I rounded them up and we took them down. Killed our 350 in about 20 minutes.
If I have to do it on my own I’ll set a limit of 50. Kill 50, find ores and wood on the way – then go on and do something else. Doing 450 in one go is much akin to drinking 10 glasses of water in one sitting. Sure, water is good for you but too much of a good thing all at once will make you sick.
I’ve never once bought a tome to help me with my virtues.
December 19, 2011 at 5:26 am
I agree wholeheartedly about the inconsistencies in these deeds.
And of course most of them are easier in groups… duh. But the main issue is consistency. The availability of some of these targets is pretty dismal in some places.
But as a former VIP early on in the game, with a free account I use for comparison, I can say what doesn’t make any sense to me in this game is that the slayer deeds require access to the region in question. I’m not stupid, so I know why they designed the game this way ($$$), but c’mon, it makes no sense logically. Anyone should be able to kill anything and get credit for slayer deeds in that area. You can complete tasks (at appropriate levels), so it is highly inconsistent to not allow discovery and slayer deeds as well.
Just my 2c.
And as a former VIP, I can also say that it makes a lot more sense to be free account all the way until you’re ready to advance deeds, etc., then being VIP or purchasing access to the region is absolutely essential. Being VIP was fun for levels 1-30 or so, wherever it was when my VIP status expired, but I can see that I would enjoy the game more as VIP at upper levels (when that includes access to special skirmishes and instances, etc.). So I feel that I wasted my moolah on VIP status at the low levels. Oh well…
December 19, 2011 at 7:19 pm
First off, let me say I have no alts, so some might say that of course, I don’t find the deeds to be in need of a revamp. Personally, I like that they required large numbers of kills. It makes the reward that much more of an achievement. But I do find them tedious at times, especially when there are low re-spawn mobs you need, like those bats in Moria. And I think there is a whole zone where all the slayer deeds require 450 kills. Annoying, but I agree with what someone else said – it seems to go by quicker if you break up the amount into groups of 50. When I am completing slayer deeds, I aim for 50 kills per day. If I go over that, I’m happy that I did more than I planned. I’m level 62 and have all my traits at level 9 or higher. I’m also something of a completionist, so that helps. I try to never leave a zone until all the deeds are completed. (As a result, I tend to be over-leveled for the zone I am in – I’m halfway through Moria at level 62). When I first enter a new area, I kill at least one of every mob I can find to see if it will unlock a deed. Then, in my normal course of questing, if I come across more of those mobs, I’ll take out a couple wherever I see them.
December 20, 2011 at 6:57 am
I’m thankful they haven’t got daily limits
my minstrel can consistently kill enemies 4-5 levels above him, on-level enemies are pie…or cake…pie-cake…
in Moria mid-50s with about rank 6 virtues
December 23, 2011 at 2:53 am
With Draigoch Nerfed since update 5, you should have new requirements:
1. Be level 75 with the prerequisite quest completed.
2. Know what a conjunction is, and what position you are if you are in the conjunction group.
3. Above 5k morale, 10k for tanks.
4. 1k primary stat
5. Virtues….ehh… As long as you’re above 5k morale and 1k on your primary stat…it shouldn’t matter too much.
Draigoch is an easy raid, even on tier 2. It’s our new “turtle”. Now, if you were raiding Orthanc tier 2, maybe you should max out your virtues, but if you’re doing casual instances (t1 isen/draigoch), your virtue rank shouldn’t matter that much. Granted it is good to keep working on those slayer deeds, but nobody should get burned out by it, especially if you play casually.
December 29, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Oh, you forgot to mention one more requirement for Draigoch:
* Not be a Lore-master
Turbine needs to take another look at the dependency on certain classes to make the raid successful. Not many groups will want to take on an LM because the class doesn’t add anything to the raid :/
January 10, 2012 at 3:28 am
The two worst deeds are clearly the Minions of Wisdan in Balad Gularan and the Kergrim deed in Skumfil…
A full Balad Gularan run nets 13 minions, so you need to do the whole run 15 times to get the kills. You’ll be lucky to find a run, and soloing you can get 6… yawn.
Bog Lurkers in LL isn’t so bad, just get big then run a solo GA Arboretum every day for a couple of weeks. Takes 2-3 minutes.