TsiengLiu released today a Dev Diary focusing on the instances that are being released in the upcoming Update 2, Echoes of the Dead. As you recall strange things have been occurring around the world of LOTRO and as TsiengLiu states, “…it falls to heroes such as yourself to keep the peace.”
New Instances
![ScreenShot00116[1]](/files/2011/03/ScreenShot001161.jpg)
To recap what we know, in total there are Five different instances:
- One 12-man raid (Ost Dunhoth, Enedwaith)
- Two 6-man fellowship dungeons (The Lost Temple, Trollshaws; Glacier Fortress, Forochel)
- Two 3-man small-fellowship dungeons (Stoneheight, North Downs; Northcotton Farm, Evendim)
All but one of the instances will have three boss encounters, while the raid will have six. (More information about the raid will be featured in an upcoming Developer Diary by jwbarry.) The instances will also include their own Deeds, challenges, and meta-rewards. All of the instances will also be able to scale in difficulty similar to Skirmishes allowing the leader to set the instance to “Tier 1” or “Tier 2”. It should be noted that “challenge/hard modes” can only be implemented on “Tier 2” difficulty. However, as a reward for completing the meta-deeds TsiengLiu states,
This time around our meta-deed reward is visually distinct from other rewards we’ve given in the past. Keep your eyes open for players capable of tackling our greatest challenges. You might find yourself quite surprised by the reward!
Also waiting for those willing to push the limits of our game is a special Deed for the first group to… Well you’ll have to figure that one out on your own. ~_^
So it looks like there will be a bonus for those who are enthusiastic about running dungeons, which is definitely a good thing! I look forward to seeing what the rewards are and how they encourage players to explore and play the instances.
Barter Currency
For those who ran the Mirkwood dungeons for the radiance gear (Sword Halls, Warg Pens, Dungeons) you probably ran a lot of Sword Halls because it was considered the shortest and easiest way to get the barter tokens. For those who have never run those dungeons, you would defeat the bosses and then your small-fellowship would each loot the three chests and get a barter from each for a total of three tokens per run. And really, for the amount of time that you had to put into the dungeon it was the most efficient dungeon to run; especially if you were able to complete hard mode and earn even more tokens. In order to discourage this behavior of players favoring one dungeon over the others, Turbine is changing the way that barter tokens are awarded in these new instances.
Starting with this group of instances, barter currency is now only awarded by completing instance-bestowed quests. Thanks to some new technology, these new quests will be completable only twice per week. These quests reset just as though they were on the twice-a-week raid reset timer. Your ability to complete them and then retry them behaves in the same manner.
What does this mean for our players? You will only get barter currency the first time you successfully complete the quests associated with one of these instances during each lock period. After that, you will either need to tackle a different instance from the cluster that you haven’t already or you can wait for the next lock period to try the same quest again.
Please note that you are perfectly free to run any given instance as many times as you like if all you want is to try and get that shiny new piece of loot you know drops there. The quest simply won’t be bestowed upon you again until the next lock out period. Also, should you fail to complete the quest; you are free to try again. You are only “locked” to the quest once you have completed it.
I am honestly unsure about how I feel when it comes to this change. Considering that the armor rewards are not a requirement (via radiance) for the raid, there shouldn’t be that much of a complaint in that regard. However, my initial impression is that twice-a-week sounds like a low amount of time. I will wait and see what the calculations are for the amount of time it takes to earn the new armor before I make a final call, but I do have some reservations especially since “…the costs for barter currency have been inflated significantly.”
The ultimate goal of these changes is to keep players from being burnt out on running the same content or from others who can’t play as much from falling behind. All of which means that Goldenstar will be happy to know that I will not be dragging her to the same instance over-and-over again. (This is a long time complaint of hers; as well as others in general.) TsiengLiu also states that if they notice an imbalance of one instance being run over the others they will adjust the barter token rewards to compensate. However, there is still a nagging part of me that doesn’t like that they’re prohibiting those with more play time from getting the rewards sooner.
Armor Sets & Rewards
There are now two sets of armor available for each class; one epic (purple) and one incomparable (teal). (Note: I believe since this version of the Developer Diary they have added an additional epic and incomparable set for each class meaning that there are now four available armor sets available for each class.)
They are essentially the same set and will feature many of the same bonuses, but the incomparable version will feature more bonuses as the set is acquired as well as bearing two skill modifications. In contrast, the rare set will only feature one skill modification.
There will also be different ways of purchasing the items. The rare version can be purchased with just barter currency (the longest way) or with the barter currency and a special token from the “Tier 1” version of the raid. For the incomparable version you have the option of using the “Tier 2” barter token and the barter currency, or “If you have the Tier 2 token and the Tier 1 armour piece for the same slot you can upgrade to the Tier 2 armour piece at the cost of some barter currency.” Every option will require the use of barter currency in each case.
Additional rewards outside of the Armor Sets are:
- A set that rewards you for having any two pieces equipped. There are several pieces in the set so players can pick and choose the items they deem most valuable and still gain the benefits of the set bonus.
- Some very interesting weapons:
- A dagger that lowers the target’s armour!
- A sword that increases light damage taken by the target
- New shields! (You can put the turtle shell down now.)
- Cool new pocket items
- A cloak that will make the collective jaws of the tactical-based dps drop to the floor
- Super rare housing goodies
- First age crafting components
- A second set of raid armour with different skill mods applied. This should satisfy those players wishing to support their non-traditional, non-group-focused trait line.
Conclusion
I am very excited about the new instances that are coming into the game. I have found the ones that I have gone through to be fairly fun and somewhat unique in their designs. A number of the bosses are very interesting and avoid the standard “tank the boss and kill the swarming adds” that are prevalent in some of the other dungeons. I love bosses that make you think and rely upon strategy rather than brute force. I think my only contention here is on the limit of how often you can earn tokens running instances, but I trust that if there are any issues they will be ironed out in the future.
PDF Version
![pdf13[1]](/files/2011/03/pdf131.png)
March 1, 2011 at 1:54 pm
I can’t wait for this update. While I’m not super impressed with the Warden gear I do look forward to running new instances and completing more deeds. Also, I’m super curious as to what the meta-deed reward is! Cosmetic item?
March 1, 2011 at 2:01 pm
That was my thought as well; some kind of cosmetic item that stands out for others to see.
March 1, 2011 at 1:59 pm
It sounds like they gave it some thought. The Twice a week cluster sounds a bit to strict. The Dailies they normally put up for any instance makes more sense.
I’m glad they are pushing people to complete instances in order to get rewards of gear, but I’ve seen the token requirements and right now, That is just not worth it (especially the two-a-week limitations)
March 1, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Yeah, I can’t help but feel that Dailies would have felt more rewarding. It seems to me that they tacked it onto an already existing system (nothing wrong with that), but I hope that they can adjust it in the future if they notice that people only the people who go into the raid while everyone else goes to different instances.
March 1, 2011 at 2:36 pm
Hey Merric,
Great post and great blog. I check it pretty consistently through the day and its always a help.
I wanted to ask. Do the tokens also drop in the 6 and 3 man dungeons or just the 12 man raid. It kinda screws over people who don’t have a raiding group to get the new armor. At least the moria armor was reasonably easy to obtain. Now its going to be a really long grind just doing quests and the dungeons twice a week. While I don’t mind working on it over time, I have 4 alts to get new armor for too.
Any light you can shed would be awesome. Thanks! Mags
March 1, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Yes the Tier 1 (rare) armor can be purchased by the Medallions of the North-Men only which will drop in these new instances (in fact you get a free medallion just for finding each of the 5 dungeons). That is one of the options they have for gearing up. Just these barter tokens is not the quickest way to earn armor but it is possible.
Tier 2 (or incomparable) armor you will need tokens that only drop in raids to earn it.
March 1, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Interesting update on how long it will take to get the sets:
Assuming that someone going after the tier 1 set is only playing tier 1 difficulty content (including the raid) and acquires a token per week it should take a little over 6 weeks.
Assuming that someone going after the tier 2 set is playing through the raid on tier 2 (they have to after all) and is completing challenges in the non-raid dungeons (but not the raid) it should take 10 weeks.
If that tier 2 player completes raid challenges as well it becomes 6 weeks again. (With a token per week of course.)
None of this counts for the initial amount of medallions players will acquire the first time through all the content (about 180 medallions) nor does it figure in the small (read: small) chance to get medallions per final boss chest in the non-raid dungeons.
March 1, 2011 at 3:46 pm
The only problem with getting the full armor set in ten weeks is that by then we should be preparing to move on into Isengard. I know at that point that the xpac will still be a little ways off. But it’s still only a little ways off. Which, one would assume, will bring yet another set of armor to collect, new weapons and jewellry, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
So, unless they do tweak the drop rate of the medallions or lower the cost of the Update 2 armor sets, I’m not certain that grinding for it will be worthwhile.
March 1, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Except you’re missing the fact that you need to multiply the amount of time it takes to get the T2 raid armour by a factor of 12 aren’t you because the T2 boss tokens are all one-per-boss and you’re rolling against 11 other people….
March 1, 2011 at 7:48 pm
I haven’t tried these on BR, but the dev said the tokens were just to reduce cost I thought? So you didn’t necessarily need them? I could be completely wrong of course
March 2, 2011 at 8:08 am
Yeah, that’s the key point. What person is actually going to win all 6 tokens within that time period? Uh, no one unless a kin is prone to gear a single person up first.
March 1, 2011 at 4:01 pm
2x a week sounds fine for the 6-person dungeons, but that kind of lock on the 3-person will wreck havoc on the casual kin run that I loved with sch/lib.
3-person instances on the kin calender? Please Turbine, give us some credit on managing our personal burn-out levels. The only mechanic that ever caused me to take a break was the LI system, and that’s being changed
March 1, 2011 at 6:16 pm
It seems that the goal is (at least partially) to entice players into actually running all the content-development-hours that the dev team has put into making the instances, rather than visiting the same one over and over.
The lock is a good way to get people to do that, but I agree that it unduly penalizes those who simply have more free time to play.
The simple solution is to remove the lock once you’ve successfully completed all the quests in the shared-lock-series, pokemon style. (once you’ve caught them all…)
March 1, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Hmmm seems like the new armor sets will take a long while to aquire… bummer.
I picked up the Annuminas set in just 2 weeks. Hele in about 4. 6 weeks if you can get a successfull group twice a week… Going to be much tougher.
So can I do the instance on Sunday and Saturday or on Monday and Tuesday? How do the locks work? Or will it be like Turtle, where it resets once a week, but you can’t run it until it resets?
Has there been any rumblings about when the update will occur?
March 2, 2011 at 8:14 am
I think the raids unlock on Tuesdays and Thursday; but don’t quote me! What this means is that:
If you complete an instance completion quest on Tuesday, you can’t get it again until Thursday. If you complete it on Monday, it will be available again on Tuesday. And while I see what their goal was when planning this out I am not sure that it is quite the “right fit”.
March 1, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Instead of adding locks to instances, they could try adding unique loot tables to each instance that will entice people to run all the instances.
March 1, 2011 at 8:11 pm
I agree with those above that say twice a week for the instances is not enough. I loved the daily school/library runs with my kin. To prevent the instances from being put on “farm mode” seems a bit mean to me. Turbine is trying to make the new dungeons bridge the gap to Isengard.
March 1, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Ialva is an angry hobbit.
[To help with the currency grind and to ease your play cycle a bit, we’re implementing a new system this time around.
Starting with this group of instances, barter currency is now only awarded by completing instance-bestowed quests. Thanks to some new technology, these new quests will be completable only twice per week.]
We run SH not just coz it’s fast and easy, but because Warg Pen and alike stinks. Turbine wants us to play their other instances? Fix bugs and improve the game play. Where does this ‘oh to make you grind my other designs lemme ban you from doing one again’ thought ccme from?
And also, it is very bad for kins with people who log on in different time. Small Kins will almost have to maintain a raid-like schedule just to make sure we all run these things at the same pace to get the tokens and rewards in each run and people who log late will just get an uh-oh.
Whoever designs this system deserves a stinky pie.
March 1, 2011 at 11:23 pm
Yeah, I foresee a lot of frustration with this current implementation of locks. As several have indicated on the LOTRO forums, this will come down to whether or not they have included sufficient items that provide bait to run the instances even if the barter coins are locked off. Quite honestly, Turbine’s ability to provide those kinds of bait is to be doubted.
That being said, I will be most happy to be proven wrong. In the meantime, the armor, its stats and the set bonuses are insufficient for me to even bother trying. I continue to find my own entertainment, elsewhere.
March 2, 2011 at 1:15 am
On Vilya, my experience is that people run the Turtle raid on Tuesday and Thursdays (with a special burg run on Sunday, I think)…and that exists because of the locks on the raid. Raids rarely happen on Saturday. These new instances have similar lock, and I suspect that they will have similar popularity – they might get run on Tuesday, Wendsday, Thursday, and Friday, but get little attention at other times.
I also think there’s a perception issue: the numbers just seem unattainable. Just seeing that each item cost 2,100 of the basic currency medallions will turn a lot of people off.
In general, I think the devs need to reconsider their direction. Most certainly, they need to 1) reduce the number of barter items so that a decent armour set is within reach of even the most casual of players, 2) standardize the currency system so as to reduce the number of tokens we’re carrying around, and 3) rethink the tiering of armour sets so that casual players can get a decent set, but more hardcore players obtain better rewards for “extra” work. Overall, I think the current system – and the system proposed for the new instances – feel more like certain groups are getting punished for not playing enough.
March 2, 2011 at 3:49 am
hi goldenstar & merric
i was going through the roundtable podcast and noticed that the burglar mp3 download is linked to the hunter’s. the hunter’s download and the burglar’s streamlink are deadlinked.
March 2, 2011 at 6:05 am
I just checked the burglar roundtable mp3 file and it is the burglar not the hunter roundtable. The hunter roundtable is the hunter roundtable. They are not linked together and both are working.
March 2, 2011 at 6:09 pm
awesome! thx its fixed now =)
ps. enjoying your site very much, excellent job from all involved. i found this site minutes before the old site crashed, it was down by the time i finished downloading ep 76 of the podcast. the podcasts and roundtables are very informative and the advice from everyone is super helpful, very entertaining too. thx all =)
March 2, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Oh no! You found us right before we crashed? Well thank you so much for coming back to check us out!
March 2, 2011 at 9:49 am
I wouldn’t really bother by new armour’s token availability since it’s garbage for several classes (another raid for my minstrel and captain to pass coins). I like the idea of gentle pushing players to play different instances, ‘cos what we have now? Moria set? – GS countless times,Mirkwood? Sword Hall EM, Annuminas? – Ost Elendil, Helegrod? – lvl 50 ‘dailies’ (“Hey, why I cannot join Thorog fight? I did all the dailies, curse you Turbine”).Of course it would be great if we had many more instances and that we should demand. A word to EZmoders
– guys, find courage and pick up the challenge! The feeling when you beat a badass is real and far more rewarding that any virtual coin, jewel and other stuff. I felt it and I witnessed that so many times!
March 2, 2011 at 11:44 am
Regarding the locks, it sounds like you can only get the tokens once a week but you can still run the instance for the loot.
However, I understand their desire to level the playing field, so that those with no jobs and no life don’t so outpace everyone else. But then I have to say what is wrong with that? I am definately not one of those with countless hours of playtime, but if I were I think I would get bored if I could not run more of the instances.
But my biggest complaint is that this system unduely punishes those who play on the smaller servers. I know my kin will try to schedule regular runs, my problems is that my real life often gets in my way and I can’t log in in time to make the runs. So being on Firefoot, I am happy to PUG, 6mans and 3mans. However if past experience serves after 2 months it will tough sledding to find a group for the instance you have unlocked. The popular instances will still be the popular ones, and it will be harder to find groups for the less popular instances. I reckon that this issue scales by server population, and my server is a smaller one…
Oh, well we will see.