When I joined my first kinship, my plan was to stick with it and not become one of those people. You know, those kinship hoppers, constantly switching from one kin to the next. Unfortunately, almost against my will, that is what I seem to have become.
I played a few MMO’s pretty casually before LOTRO, but I had never joined a guild. I had read some things and knew they could be cauldrons of drama, prone to shifting personal alliances and breakups. So my plan when I entered LOTRO was to carefully pick a Kinship that I could stay with for a few years.
I spent some time during closed beta reading up on various kinships. Being fairly inexperienced I did not really know what I should be looking for. I am a Christian, so I ended up choosing a Christian Kinship, The Eruhini: The Children of Illuvatar. I figured being in a kinship with like minded people would preclude some of the drama since we should more or less agree on many matters.
I made myself known on their website for a few weeks as I waited for my Beta invite. I entered the game for the first time in September of 2006. I met my first in game friend, Vallenar, later that week while running around Combe. He was also interested in the The Eruhini, so we talked a little and got to know each other. We later hooked up with Abarsai, who was one of the Kinship Officers and he invited us to the Kinship. I spent many happy hours those first few weeks grouping with the two of them.
As Beta progressed, I spent time on the forums and in game getting to know everyone else. Many friends I recall from those days include: Storin the Champion, Erirdar the eternal hunter, Sylexis the Burglar, Jimli the Guardian, Feador the might build Minstrel, and Saunders and Elna. Unfortunately, the kinship leader was still a raider in World of Warcraft, and rarely logged in. And some of the Kinship officers spent a lot of time on the forums, but rarely logged in. I assumed much of this would change when the game went live.
Shortly before the Open Beta/Early Start servers went live, in February, we made the choice to join the Elendilmir server. The problems with the leadership continued, but many of the members spent a lot of time together getting to level 15. It was a great few weeks, I vividly recall banding together in a raid to kill the purple conned spirits around Fornost hoping for a crafting drop so some of us could progress to the next tier.
The bomb dropped just before the servers went live for the official release. Abarsai decided not to buy the game. So the only real leadership force in the kinship decided not to stay. And it got worse as the leader still did not play very much, and one of the other leaders did not buy the game either, though he was still present on the forums.
The kinship spluttered and splintered shedding people for a few weeks. I decided to stick with and try to make it work. But a month or two later, an argument on our forums about a religious issue ended up driving me away.
Lesson 1 : Don’t Join a Kinship/Guild based on out of game affiliations like politics or religion.
Many of my friends had joined up with Elborigorns Kinship : Loves Iron Fist. Sylexis got back to her raiding roots and joined up with Preying Mantis. A few remained in The Eruhini. I made the conscious decision to go it alone for a while and not rebound into another kinship. I was leveling through Evendim and Angmar at this time. I finally got an invite from Feador to join his very small Kinship: Calebs Report. This was a Christian Kinship, but we were not to talk about religious issues in the forums and it was pretty low key. I just wanted to get in on the ground floor of a small kinship and try to build it into something.
We grouped with our old friends quite often. I hit the level cap of 50 at this time. After a few months, Feador and I talked about merging with Loves Iron Fist since we grouped with them so often.
Lesson 2: Be careful about joining a startup Kinship. It is very hard to get them off the ground, only join one with an experienced leader.
I was leery to join up with a new kinship. I did a lot of research in Google on Elborigorn’s former kinship, The Alliance of Rhudaur. It seems they had suffered a drama melt down, and he had formed this new kinship to get away from that. It had some of his old AoR friends as well as a lot of castaways from The Eruhini.
I saw many of my friends hit level cap in this time period. As raiding gained interest due to Helegrod and the Rift, Elborigon left to take over The Defenders of the Greyflood and rebuild it as a raiding kinship. I think he always had the desire to be a raider and was not happy in the more casual kinship he had created as a refuge from the Drama.
Lesson 3: Make sure you know and are aligned with the spirit of the Kinship and leader. Raiding? Casual? PVMP?
Loves Iron Fist was left in the capable hands of Saunders Featherhat. Most of the Old AoR folks left to join DoTG, and they went on to become a very good raiding Kinship. The rest of us including many of the old Eruhini decided to rename the Kinship, and held a contest. I am still vaguely bitter about my losing idea of “Illuvatar’s Crescendo”, but came to love the new Kinship : The Defenders of the Light.
This was, in my own mind, the golden age of LOTRO. I fondly remember the many friends from that Kinship : Storin, Vallenar, Gaze, and Ethelvin (the Cute Blond in green… also a guy). Saunders and Elna (those hobbits) also got married in real life about this time. We did questing and instance runs, Kinship events and festivals. We even held an in game wedding for them, seen in the picture below.
We slowly got everyone up to level cap, and began to raid the Rift with the help of a few friends from DOTL and The Team. People like Jimli, Iorebeth and Amandaykay were often seen in our runs.
This happy time ended with the release of Moria, though. You may not have noticed with how casually I mentioned it before, but I hit level 50 well before my friends. I didn’t really know about raiding at that time and was content to help my friends’ level. And then we were all at 50 for a very long time together as we raided the Rift.
I quickly moved through Moria in a desire to get back to level cap and begin raiding again. I reached 60 in just a few weeks, and began to join up with pug groups doing the Grand Stair, and Forges trying to get my Radiance gear. Almost everyone else in the Kinship was left far behind me. They were not that interested in end-game content, or at least not as driven to get to it.
They would try to help me run the radiance instances, but they just weren’t ready yet. I finally saw that I was pushing them too far when we tried to run Dark Delvings. We wiped so many times, I felt really bad.
Lesson 4: Don’t try to push your Kinship in Hardcore mode. If you want to raid, join a Raiding Kinship.
I had met a lot of new people while PUGing through the radiance instances for my radiance armor. One of the standouts was Agrivere, the leader of Preying Mantis. He had offered to run me through Grand Stair to get me that armor piece since I had failed to win it after dozens of runs. He made me an offer to join Preying Mantis. I spoke with an old friend, Sylexis, about the kinship and did some research. It seemed that Preying Mantis had just undergone a meltdown and had lost many of its members shortly after Moria came out. Agrivere was going to rebuild the Kinship from nearly scratch.
I decided that this would be a great Challenge, and I threw myself at it, joining Preying Mantis. I met many great people like Eomin, Greenwin, Telquin, and Halthruen, and my fellow dwarf Champion: Thadeus. Agrivere also called in some friends from other servers and kinships. Figgy, Margaret (Jingle Jangle), and Button joined us a few weeks later. We began to raid the Watcher again as a new kinship. I think we all thought it would be a few months before we were back up to raiding strength, but only two weeks later we had our first Watcher kill. Things seemed to be going well.
Only a few months had passed when Agrivere announced he was leaving LOTRO and going to play WOW. Sylexis was leaving too. Agrivere was upset with the lack of a new raid, the exploits, and the Weapon DPS reduction change. I think he saw the coming slowdown in content.
Lesson 5: As best as you can, try to read your leaders and closer friends for signs they may be ready to leave the game.
Lesson 6: Don’t join a Kinship/Guild just for one or two people.
I was very torn by this. They were the two main people whom I had joined PM for. But I had become friends with many of the other people so I stayed on. They were a saltier group than DOTL had been, but they’re sense of humor soon grew on me. And they were exceptionally skilled players, we blew through all the content with ease.
Eomin took over as the leader and things went on much as they had. After some time, A few of the old PM members came back from the Kinships they had gone to. Uruviel and Lucibell fit right back into the kinship. A few people like Halthuren drifted off to other kinships.
After a few more weeks the Champion nerf hit. I was quite fed up with Turbine by this myself. I decided to take a break (much to the joy of my wife), and left LOTRO for about 3 months. I came back to find PM working the new raid Dar Nargabund. I had committed to my wife that I would only raid once a week.
The problem was they required two nights a week to maintain active status in the DKP system. I accepted that I would not get my DN armor till the main raiders had gotten theirs. Then people began to drop out one by one. Button left the game entirely in order to focus on life. Margeret and Thadeus quit too, and Greenwin and Telquin left for Misadventures.
In the end most of the friends I had made were gone already, so I decided to quit as well, and try to find a Kinship which would let me raid in a more casual manner.
Lesson 7: Make sure you can meet the Kinships needs for Raid attendance. If the rules or your situation changes, it is best to leave right away, or else give up on maxing your character.
So I was alone again. I spent a few weeks looking into different raiding kinships which would let me raid once a week without losing active status, and who raided on nights I could attend.
In the end I joined with Defenders of the Greyflood. It turned out Erirdar and Jimli had ended up there after stints in a few other kinships, and Vallenar showed up too. I already knew the leader, Elborigorn, so I began raiding DN with them. I also met some great new people like Megshin, Prien, and Lumi.
Unfortunately, forces were in play behind the scenes which I was not aware of and the kinship split a month or two after I joined. Many people stayed in DOTG, but Elborigorn left. He set up a new kinship called Salvation. This time I just ignored all the arguments and whose fault it was. All of my old friends and a few of the new ones went to Salvation, so I did too.
Lesson 8: Try to stay in touch with the subtleties of Kinship life so you can sense a drama quake coming. Get to know some of the leaders and stay in contact.
Lesson 9: If a kinship split happens, try to stay with the one side which has your closest friends. Don’t take part in the flame fest.
So Salvation began to be stood up. But it was meant to be a casual kinship. We began to run DN again, and then Barad Guldur, once Seige of Mirkwood came out. I was having fun and getting to know everyone when I got major wife agro. I must have force taunted without knowing it.
Lesson 10: Make sure you don’t tick off those you live with (in Real Life) by playing too much LOTRO.
So I took off 6 months from the game. I came back a few weeks before Free to Play in order to get ready for the new content. I was not planning to raid at all, but just to play the new content and then hover on the fringes of the Kinship. I went to one or two raids when they needed a person.
I noticed that they were still not very experienced and having a lot of problems defeating BG. By this time I knew what to expect. Elborigorn announced that he was going to split the kinship into Raiding and Non-Raiding parts. A new Kinship, Endeavor was to be created and he would send out invites to specific people to join it. Most of the alts of those people would be left in Salvation.
The goal was to get a more hardcore group of experienced players and characters from the group so they could concentrate on killing the Lieutenant. Then they would begin to pull in people and characters from Salvation a few at a time to get them through once they knew the strategies. He also pulled in some friends like Saunders from elsewhere to help get it going.
I had hoped it would remain one kinship with two tiers, raiders and casuals. But I should have considered this outcome. Anyway, I knew where I fit, so I stayed in Salvation with no issues. Some people who didn’t get picked were offended and left. Others were sad to see this turn of events and left anyway.
Lesson 11: Know your skill, availability, and where you fit in a kinship, don’t get offended when you are asked to fill that role.
As a concession Elbs agreed to my idea of creating a chat channel so People in Salvation and Endeavor could look for fellowship together and maintain discussion. It became a sort of meta Kinship channel, which helped keep up the joint kinship ideal. But, as time went by Salvation got smaller and smaller.
I began to raid a little more, every few weeks. After a few months of playing it very casual, and the Holidays, I eventually put my pants back on and requested to join Endeavor. So I am back with old friends like Vallenar, Jimli, Storin, Elborigorn, Saunders and Elna as well as some new friends like Rob, Megshin, Prien and Sambucca. And I am raiding once a week, and killing the LT. Things are good… for now.
Lesson 12: When things are stable and good, enjoy it and savor your friendships.
As Thorin and company knew well, 13 is an un-lucky number. Since I do not have 14 lessons, I must stop here.
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February 4, 2011 at 8:16 am
Wow! Awesome post about your kin expereience. Interesting read and not tht disimilar from many other players.
Gobble gobble.
February 4, 2011 at 8:25 am
maybe i just got lucky, but i’ve been in the same kinship since beta and can’t imagine being in any other.
good article, as always
February 4, 2011 at 8:52 am
Lovely article! I have been fortunate enough not to be involved in kin drama, and I too had every intention of staying in my first LOTRO kin when I started playing in September. Though at least for me that idea was shattered when first the officers that had been the driving force quit the game in favor of WoW and later the kin leader went on to play another MMO. So, I recently made my first kin-hop.
February 4, 2011 at 8:58 am
Yes, great post…
I think i have the same problem…
i’m in Portucale Electus, a portuguese kin, and it is a mix of older and newer playes…
sometimes get’s hard to compromisse both sides…
February 4, 2011 at 8:59 am
Great read. As a kin leader, it gives me some great pointers and also encouragement that kins, like most things, have their ups and downs, ebbs and flows.
Nice job.
February 4, 2011 at 9:03 am
Awesome post!!
I’ve been in two kins since beta, on different servers. Prior to F2P a new split-off raiding kin was created on my current server with alts etc staying in the more “casual” kin with a joint channel for comms. It is still working currently but only time will really tell…
February 4, 2011 at 9:07 am
I was in a kin where the leader is a bad RPer and he forces us to admire his captain. He claims his captain is a reincarnation of a badass from Dol Guldur and we should all be evil. We ended up created a new kin without him and we worked together well : D
February 4, 2011 at 9:25 am
Interesting tale. Some of your lessons are good general lessons and some seem to me more specific to your situation. But I think there are some really important things you missed.
Fion’s Lesson 1: Don’t expect “no drama”.
Drama is inevitable. The only no drama kinship is a kinship of one. People cause drama. You bring multiple people together and there WILL be drama. I don’t care how close they are, or how wonderful they are. In the end, as the guy in Muppets Take Manhattan said, “Peoples is peoples” and all people cause drama. If you see a kinship that promises no drama, run. Because they won’t be equipped to handle it when it happens.
And while we’re at it, don’t expect things to not change. People change all the time. Groups of people change even more. This is part of our nature so don’t be surprised or offended by it.
Fion’s Lesson 2: Look for a Kinship leader who communicates very openly.
You should never join a kinship where the leader is remote and unapproachable. You should never join a kinship where the leader isn’t 100% honest about the state of the kinship at all times. Get to know your leader. Be comfortable with them and the officers of your kinship. If you can’t, if they are aloof and unavailable, then you don’t want to be in the kinship.
Fion’s Lesson 3: Make sure you communicate openly with the leadership of your Kinship.
Most leaders and officers want to make their members happy. We can’t do that if we don’t know what you want or when something is bothering you. Make your concerns known to your leadership. Don’t brood on them. If you can’t be honest and forthcoming with your Kinship then you shouldn’t expect to be able to get what you want.
And for the love of Eru, don’t leave a kin without saying a word! Even if you’re unhappy, even if you just can’t take it anymore. At least send a mail explaining why you left if you can’t bring yourself to talk to someone. It’s common courtesy.
February 4, 2011 at 9:42 am
Fion gets a gold star for quoting the Muppets!
February 4, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Great reply. Communication is key.
February 4, 2011 at 9:34 am
Good read. I left Windfola over kin drama (indirectly). I was asked if we could absorb two kins into our existing kin and said ‘no’. I logged in a few days later and found we had tons of new people. Worst part wasn’t that they came in with existing cliques but that these two kins didn’t like each other. Even tho I’d said no to absorbing them, I tried my hardest as kin leader to make it work. The drama did me in, tho, and I went to Big E intending to play for just a week as a break. Wound up moving my main there and leaving Windfola behind.
I restarted our kin on Big E as some followed me over and we decided to keep up the ‘casual kin who raids’ thing. There are some awesome people in that kin but, as of when I left, they couldn’t raid. Too casual. There’s nothing wrong with that play style at all, but it didn’t fit what I wanted. Plus I spent most of my time crafting nearly everything for everyone instead of working my characters.
Now I play mostly on Crickhollow working up a new brood of characters in a kin with just my best gaming friend. I’m not raiding but I am having more fun than I’ve had in a long time. Afraid to join a bigger kin though and hoping we can find decent pugs to play bigger content.
February 4, 2011 at 9:48 am
I experienced kinship drama very soon after becoming an officer in my first kinship. I had made bonds with several other officers that had issues with our leader. I ended up following them to a larger, more raiding-focused kinship, and shortly after, the previous kinship dissolved. Several of my other friends from that kinship also moved with me though, so it was very comfortable.
I also am a Christian, and have been tempted to join Christian guilds on other games, but it is good to read your story. That obviously is not enough to hold a group together, sadly.
February 4, 2011 at 2:38 pm
It doesn’t always end like that. in Band of Hope (Landroval), we’ve been through quite a few leaders that have come and gone for RL reasons, tons of officers that come and go… and members as well. We’re a super-casual Christian kinship. We don’t suffer much drama, but I suspect that one of the big reasons why are the officers do such a fine job.
That, and we don’t raid. In every MMO I’ve ever played, leading raids leads to strife. It’s just not worth it. Our raiders have found other outlets (usually, a friend’s raiding guild). The PvMP-folks go with a group of friends that enjoy that kind of thing.
We don’t attempt to be everything to everyone, just a safe haven to call “home.”
There is no “us vs them”, even between the VIP and F2P. We work together through whatever content is available and have a good time together.
February 4, 2011 at 10:13 am
Hakkon, thanks for sharing your story. I was part of a Christian kinship on Nimrodel (Vox) that lasted until mid-2009. We were pretty big, but also casual, and we kept religious controversy outside of kin discussions (except for those who joined our kin just to tell us how wrong we were, lol). It came to an end when the leader and successor took leaves of absence for RL issues, the kin crumbled (especially as we started to break into raiding/casual groups).
I left with some of the raiding people to join another small kin with the same Christian focus, We had a lot of fun, but not enough experienced/willing people to do big raids. So we merged with Blade of the Eldar, a husband/wife led kin (both were Christians). Those were my golden days – I got to see Moria 6-mans for the first time, eventually working up to DN and BG.
But as summer 2010 approached, our core raiders left the game because of the lack of content that they saw. Desperate to save the kin, our interim leader called for a merger with another once-big raiding kin (non-Christian, of course) on Nim. BotE exploded with backbiting and allegations about usurping power, destroying the kin, etc. Eventually, the interim leader left BotE to move to the other kin, and my wife and I followed because we wanted raiding opportunities.
The only problem: only 1 of my old friends (and none of my Vox friends) are in the kin — the interim leader and most of those other BotE friends have left or stopped playing. I need to decide if I will stay and make new friends, or leave and join a different friend’s kin … I guess we’ll see.
February 4, 2011 at 10:29 am
First off, a Kinship isn’t just something that just is, you make it great. If you have so many demands and rules, make your own. People will follow you if you do it right. And even if you don’t want to break off, you can still work hard to make it great.
Next, there’s an old rule/law/commandment for sailors. “What is said on the boat, stays on the boat.” You need to learn to take the nastiest arguments made, and leave them in the argument. An old Kin Leader of mine and I used to get in the nastiest political discussions. The moment the discussion was done, it was done. Don’t bother bringing it back up.
Lastly, a good sense of humor can break up the worst tensions and dramas any kin can conjure.
February 4, 2011 at 10:31 am
Thanks for all your kind comments. I was a little nervous about posting this, fearing it would be too personal to be interesting to others. (and i even asked permission of as many of the people mentioned in the story as I could locate).
February 4, 2011 at 11:43 am
This is a great post. There’s a lot to learn from it.
I don’t join many kins and often go forever without joining one. I’ve only actually been in two in LOTRO and I’ve been playing since the July after the game launched.
I was kind of lucky. I don’t want to turn this into a plug, but these two kins definitely do things well. I’ve been lucky that I’ve not had to deal with some of the events others have
On Gladden, The Knights of Dol Amroth (http://theknightsofdolamroth.guildlaunch.com/)
On Landroval, Council of the Secret Fire. (http://www.secretfireonline.com/firetalk/)
February 4, 2011 at 11:53 am
awesome post, wish I would of thought to look for a christian kin, I didnt though, so I’ll stick with where I’m at.
February 4, 2011 at 12:38 pm
I have seen my fair share of kin drama, was a member of Affliction on Firefoot when it self destructed a few years ago. Never really understood why, but I tried not to pay attention to the drama. My other kin hopping instances have occured when the small kins just kinda faded away, and would have maybe 1 or 2 others on during hours I would play. I like to be part of a kin that at least has the capacity to run the 6 mans.
Rules that I play by are and keep me drama free:
#1 it is only a game. RL is always more important.
#2 follow the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated.
February 4, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Great Job Haakon
February 4, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Good article, Haakon. I was a member of Eruhini before beta even started when the game was still called Middle Earth Online. I’ve always been such a casual player that drama usually passes me by. Such was the case with Eruhini. I believe I was one of the last ones left there and went to Defenders of the Light. You’d think after all this time I’d have more than one 65 but when I said casual I meant casual.
Once again nice to see you posting on here.
February 4, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Yes, i remember you. Glad you are still in the game.
February 4, 2011 at 7:47 pm
This is a very well written article and I agree with most of your major points.
I have had the privilege of being in two Christian kinships, in both LotRO and WoW, that were ran successfully and without controversy over religious topics. Look up Band of Hope on Landroval if you’re interested in LotRO or The Forgiven on Terenas for WoW.
I couldn’t have asked for a nicer group of people to play with!
On a separate note – thanks to all the authors keeping CSTM going! I love both the blog and the podcast!
February 4, 2011 at 8:43 pm
I didn’t even know you got religious or politcal kinships, is this mainly a US server thing or are there UK ones as I have never seen them advertised?
My main kinship: Heroes of Eriador EU are a Motley collection of varying countrys, colours, politics, religions, non religions, backgrounds, and ages. On Paper we are a mess, but we have been together since 2007 and still going strong, dramas and the works. I love the diversity our mix brings, I think respect and tolerance for others is key and overcomes any problems our differences have the potantial to cause (they never had honestly, (though the DKP on the other had…
)
We have expanded and shrunk with the game, and we are casuall raiders, in that we are social and casual focused, yet we raid weekly too, and a little PvP. Again mixes don’t work on paper, but as long as you all communicate and roll with the punches you’ll find a way.
Most our ex-leaders and officers (including myself) get voted in largely by poular consensus as long as they ar ewilling, and just step down into the kin when they are getting burnt out, and I think that helps the longevity. The leader is very much just a temporarily annoited member thats doing a tough job with us.
February 4, 2011 at 11:06 pm
I have seen a few Christian Kinships. Not sure about other religions. I think it is somewhat common. People like to spend time with people they have things in common with.
February 8, 2011 at 12:02 pm
Oh sure, sorry no judgement intended. It had never occured to me is all, and I’d never seen any over here, aside from national kinships- Greece, Portugal, Polish etc, which I had assumed were largely for reasons of language.
I had not really though any further than ‘other people that like LOTR- cool’, niave of me I suppose
.
February 9, 2011 at 11:58 am
I think “mature” is the key word in advertisement on EU servers to try keep the drama to the minimal.
February 9, 2011 at 6:47 pm
LOL, i think that has a different connotation over here.
February 9, 2011 at 12:38 pm
That’s pretty much my experience too..
February 4, 2011 at 8:46 pm
I have grown to have a totally different view of guilds/kinships/clans/whatever the game calls them. If I were still the hardcore type, maybe I would stick only to hardcore-type kinships but real life just doesn’t allow that when we grow up.
My personal preference is to find a kinship where the members are active and enjoy each other and has fun. Plenty of fun chat, minimal drama. Plenty of kin groups, but not to the point of being exclusive. For the more in-depth grouping and raiding I prefer Alliances. And not the generic “Kinship A is allied with Kinship B” because those never work out despite the best of intentions. (I believe the old adage “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” applies here.) I mean an Alliance built of individual players. It’s like having a meta-kinship of like-minded players who still enjoy chatting but also the raiding, etc. while still allowing everyone to remain in their own kinships with their other friends. A game isn’t worth breaking up friendships, not even virtual ones. You *can* have your cake and eat it too.
February 7, 2011 at 11:38 am
Lesson 157 : Never joined a kinship where one member is romantically attached to another. This will lead to epic destruction.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, another great article Haakon.