Merric Asks:
What do you think of Turbine’s announcement that they will be removing Radiance, and what do you think they may do as an alternative?
Wow, heated topic. But hey, you asked so here’s my take on it…
Handicap Accessible
One of the problems with the radiance system is that it requires players to spend a lot of time farming gear that, radiance aside, they wouldn’t ultimately want just to be able to legitimately access the end-game raid content.
This requirement handicapped players who have very limited play time every week. This type of player wants to be able to get a taste of a raid without having to spend what is about 2 months of play time for them just to set foot inside. This time requirement puts a serious handicap on otherwise capable toons and players when it comes to doing the current bit of end-game raiding.
With the dropping of the radiance system in the near-ish future we’re likely to see a lot more people being able to participate in raids which is great in terms of people being able to get a look at the full game.
Drawbacks to Full Accessibility
One thing that the radiance system did well was to drill into people’s minds that you can’t simply stroll into a raid wearing just your underwear (or gear that is more than maybe 5 levels old for that matter). Even without radiance, people are going to have to remember/realize that your gear WILL affect you ability to be effective and successful.
Thinking back to the days when “The Rift” was the “in thing”, most if not all of the very successful raid groups had set minimum morale requirements for attendance, due largely to Thaurlach’s (the balrog) “Baleful roar” attack which did a large chunk of damage 1-2k (which at a level 50 cap was huge)… Oh, it also wiped hope which made things worse. Since this attack was something that really drove the final phases of that fight, if you didn’t have the right morale you were a serious liability and in many cases wouldn’t be allowed to go. Can you blame the raid leaders? If you were going to be dead every time the balrog roared you weren’t going to earn your shot at gear if the group managed to succeed with you lying around dead.
So what I’m getting at here is this:
In order to maintain a suitable level of challenge in raid content the developers are going to have to use attacks and mechanics which are going to create more situations where your other stats become critical. Gear (and traits for that matter) WILL STILL be a gating point for success and effectiveness. Good news here though is that the currently available crafted gear for high levels offers plenty of raw stats.
Any New Gating?
If I had to wager a guess as to whether or not Turbine might use another form of gating for future raids and even past raids once they’re reworked I’d say yes.
My best guess is that the only gate on future raids will be similar to the way Thorog is currently gated for Helegrod. In order to access Thorog you must complete Giant Wing, Spider Wing and Drake Wing at least once each per character in order to gain permanent access to Thorog on each character. So in a future release we might see a deed that requires completing each small fellowship and full fellowship instance at least once per character in order to access that cluster’s raid.
I think this type of gating would be perfect for a couple reasons:
- It encourages players to check out all of the new cluster and not just the “fastest” or “easiest” parts
- It gives the developers the chance to introduce key mechanics to the raid in small doses in other parts of the cluster. Thus making those instances a “training ground” for the raid.
- Gaining access to the raid would be acceptable and tolerable and should deter no one.
Closing Thoughts
This is going to be an interesting transition back to a radiance-free end-game scene. My biggest concern is that the raid content might not be made difficult enough to keep the “elite” and “hardcore” entertained. I do hope though, that turbine comes up with something that is both accessible and challenging enough to stay interesting for a long time.
This article is part of the “Ask Elborigorn” series, where I encourage CSTM readers to send questions to me at: elborigorn@casualstrolltomordor.com . I then will answer the question either with an entire article or as part of a multi-question weekly article.
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September 16, 2010 at 10:33 am
Trouble is radiance plays well with lotr world, were hope, and dread are a part of tolkiens world
September 16, 2010 at 11:05 am
Hope and dread have always been a part of LoTRO end game, so I wouldn’t expect that to change. What will be removed is the radiance/gloom component.
Elb, those were my thoughs on how they would implement a new gate on raids. I wonder if they will remove raid locks as well, like they did on the scalable Helegrod.
September 16, 2010 at 11:05 am
Elb – nice write up! I can’t imagine that radiance will be removed before we see Isengard drop and the level cap raised. The tower of Orthanc would be a great raid that could be split up into “wings” with each successive wing accessible only after it’s predecessor had been completed. But I like the idea of progressing through the locks in a raid in the intended sequence as opposed to skipping right to the Mistress for example. That would just feel weird.
Rad gear still trumps crafted gear every time so it will be advantageous to grab this stuff, even without the radiance. The recent addition of barterable rad gear has essentially made getting 150 radiance realistically achievable by the average player in just a few weeks. It’s a bit perplexing for them to make rad gear so much easier to get and then, that very same week, announce that they are scrapping the idea altogether.
It’s going to be very interesting to see what they come up with.
September 16, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Moramon -
The rad gear is not always better. The best and most popular example is the DG set, which most people might have worn one piece of but otherwise kept in the bank unless they were raiding. The level 60 rad gear was FAR superior to it, and much easier to get. Now the new rad gear is on the whole even better, so your statement is frequently true, but not always.
I’m hoping they simply elimiate radiance/gloom and change it to hope and dread, and then have rad gear give hope instead.
October 14, 2011 at 3:48 pm
oh this is far funnier in hindsight
September 16, 2010 at 12:52 pm
I just hope they don’t replace rad with something worse. A minimum morale requirement for a raid makes more sense than having gear with a special stat.
September 16, 2010 at 12:55 pm
I just wanted to say that I enjoy your raiding columns very much, Elb! There aren’t many (any?) raiding editorials on the various fansites, so I am very glad you started one. Your pieces always have great information and insight.
September 16, 2010 at 1:13 pm
It’s a tricky balance; let’s hope they can make it work.
September 16, 2010 at 1:39 pm
My thoughts, I despised radiance when it first came out, especially after they changed it so it did not give you hope anylonger. Primarily, due to the fact that it totally nerfed tailors, at least my reason for becoming one, and therefore basically turned me off from crafting in general.
The gear itself while nice was too hard to get, you had to run all those instances, and be lucky. If not you could not get enough pieces to run watcher. I am a consistent single digit roller, so the only time I got pieces was on kin runs that were run just for me to get my piece. This was upsetting.
However, once they changed it to the token system it has become vastly easier to aquire. I really like the token system, and now the skirmish barter systems will work too, but good grief 12,000 skirmish marks needed to get the annuminas set? I can handle the 18 superior third marks, but 12,000 skirmish marks? Sorry I digress. The token and barter system have made radiance relatively easy to get. I don’t think it prevents anyone from endgame content, like it did before. The person who is only causally playing an hour a day, is not going to have the time to run any of the big raids anyways. I have always felt that the large endgame raids are for the hardcore players, not everyone needs to run them. I play a lot but rarely find the time to join in on a large raid.
My only wish for the radiance gear would be if Turbine unnerfed armourers and created a means whereby radiance gear could be crafted, like reforged second age items.
September 16, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Great comments and a lot of good points. But for a lot of players… they simply want to know that they CAN go into a raid… even if they never find the time… now granted… with helegrod broken into bite sized pieces that can be done in an hour running at a relatively casual pace… pretty much anyone can raid in terms of the very basic requirements.
Another thought I’ve had is that with radiance gone… I think we’re going to see the hope wipe mechanic cropping up on the final raid bosses more often again, which to be honest, I find exciting as a raid leader.
Also, thanks so much for the complements. Glad my work and rare perspective (as far as fansites go) is well-taken and appreciated.
September 17, 2010 at 10:24 am
Oz – I agree completely! What I actually said was Rad gear always trumps crafted gear, thus making it highly desirable, even after the radiance is stripped. My point being that players will still hav great incentives to get this stuff because the stats, especially on the Moria sets is so good!
September 17, 2010 at 1:25 pm
I really do hope they go with the new Helegrod style of gating. It would be a great way to make sure everyone gets to run all the content in the instance cluster.
I’ve noticed that getting groups to re-run Helgerod instances with the intent to get everyone their deeds so they can do the Dragon wing is much easier. Originally the reward for running rad instances was the rad gear. This meant that not many people wanted to spend an hour or more getting one person some gear with no benefit to them. Now we can run the Giant wing of Helegrod to get one person the deed completion and still have a chance to get some Superior 3rd marks, symbols, or even tomes which keeps it exciting and rewarding. I’m definitely looking forward to what Turbine comes up with.