The “Alternative Methods” guide set is aimed at presenting different ways to fill the basic roles/needs in any group or instance without use of either the normal class/roll or method. My goals with these set of suggestive guides are to break people of the “You have to have classes A, B, C, D and 2 others” mentality as well as offer suggestions of how to use skills and mechanics more aggressively in the logic of the best defense is a killer offense.
The classes in this game are far more flexible than some realize and there are a lot more possible class combinations that can work through content just fine. Break this mind set and you may find new fun and challenges in your everyday LotRO gaming.
Crowd Control
The term crowd control (often abbreviated: CC) is most commonly used as a broad term encompassing the following effects roots, stuns, mezzes and fears. The general use of crowd control skills is to separate multiple mob pulls into smaller, easier to chew pieces or in other cases to keep separate mobs that aid each other (especially via buffs) when close to each other.
A common and often unneeded use of crowd control is to lockdown a monster that has an interruptible skill with a very powerful negative effect even if the total number of monsters in the pull is easily manageable.
Alternative Method: Dead Men Tell No Tales (they also don’t use skills and don’t do damage)
In scenarios where a mob is being CCed just because it does a big attack but strictly speaking the strength and number of mobs isn’t unbearable it is far faster and in lots of ways easier to simply kill that mob first.
If the big attack you’re watching for is induction based, have interrupt skills ready and don’t be afraid to use short stuns to break up that mob’s combat cycle. Once the problem mob is dead it can no longer do you harm.
This method keeps the group as a whole on a higher plane of alertness and is actually very effective at keeping everyone awake through the whole instance or whatever the case may be. The reason alertness is heightened is this: when you are CCing a mob, generally, one person is watching it, if the CC method resists and the mob breaks lose, people need to be alerted, then find it, then watch for it’s big attack or try not to use area of effect skills so that it can be CCed again… whereas, by having everyone working actively on the problem mob you’re far less likely to have an “Oh crap” moment since the their attention is already in the critical place.
A less specific use of this “kill’em quick” method is simply to take on the full brunt of a pull, have the tank round it all up and let DPS go AoE crazy, healers can focus healing on one person while the DPS gets the job done.
Thing about this method is that you may have to burn some skills that are referred to as “cooldowns”; however, it’s my opinion that any skill with a cooldown of 5 mins or less is meant to be used heavily. “Guardian’s Pledge” is a perfect example of a skill often called a “cooldown” that should be used more frequently, especially to aid in executing bold moves such as taking on whole pulls that most groups will always CC a part of. Guard charges in, challenges, uses pledge and the groups DPS (especially the AoE sort) goes to town and like a riding mower on grass that’s just a bit too tall –– mows them down.
Alternative Method: Staggered and Alternated CC (Aka “Rolling Lockdown”)
This method combines both the classic “lockdown” style of CC in which a mob is incapacitated by mezzes and left alone until the only thing left standing and the “Kill it quick method”. The basic premise of this method is to alternate stuns (which leaves a debuff and are subject to the red stun-immunity dot) and mezzes (which do not leave a debuff and are not subject to the stun immunity dot) to basically render the mob useless but still strikeable until dead. By doing this you eliminate or at least significantly reduce the risk of the mob doing any particularly nasty attacks and the mob is dead fast; especially since that, while stunned, a mob has no block, parry or evade… rendering them very vulnerable.
But Elb, mezzes are broken on damage.. so how are we still able to lock them down if the mez is instantly broken?
That’s a great question! Let me start answering this question by first explaining the nature and differences of stuns and mezzes…
A stun is an effect which renders the target completely useless for a short time. Typically between 3 and 10 secs depending on the skill that generated the effect [there are longer stuns that some mobs do but that's irrelevant to this topic]. Stuns on mobs cannot be undone by damage, which means during a stun you’re getting some free swings in at the target.
Mezzes are generally longer with the typical range being between 30 seconds and a minute (although there are some mezzes as short as 5 secs, these are in just a couple very special cases though). Mezzes, unlike stuns are broken by damage, meaning if you hit the mob, he “wakes up”. HOWEVER, mezzes have a 2 second immunity to the break by damage rule.
Given this you can stun, wait maybe 2-3 seconds after the stun breaks (not enough time for the mob to do anything significant) Mez him which will buy you two more seconds, then wait the remaining 3-4 seconds on the mobs stun-immunity and stun him again and repeat the process until you’re out of stuns and mezzes or the target is dead.
This method is highly recommended for any mobs that have absolutely insane attacks that aren’t worth taking a chance on.
Alternative Method: “Hey guuuuuys.. I haz CC 2!”
What follows is a list of CC sometimes forgotten by group leaders and at times, even players themselves!
- Loremasters: despite being the quintessential “CC Class” I don’t see enough LMs using Ents Go to War. It’s a massive damage Area of Effect skill with 6 second stun on each of 5 targets. It’s a huge tide turner on a large pull and completely unenhanced it’s only on a 5 min cooldown.
- Hunters: Crafted traps (always useable in-combat), In-combat traps via the skill (when traited) and distracting shot. I see rain of thorns and bard’s arrow being used a ton and that’s great. However, not enough hunters are both carrying and more importantly, USING crafted traps. Crafted traps give you a ton of varied options to suit the need and always being able to be used in-combat these are great for a quick fix via CC. Example of quick fix: hunter pulls aggro on something that is neither something they can handle nor the main target… slow mob, move away, drop trap. mob is rooted, get back to business on the main target and be more careful next time! Distracting shot is another option for a temporary quick fix.
***Hunters get enhanced and more numerous CC options when traited in the “Trapper of Foes” line however unless the group is truly in need of and hurting for CC, it’s not worth it*** - Wardens: Desolation: puts an effect on each of 3 targets (untraited. Traited is 6) giving them a 25% chance to be feared (50% traited) for 2 secs every 4 secs for 16 secs. Now, this isn’t a sustained CC by any means, but it’s perfect for muddling the affairs of several nasty mobs at once. It’s not a sure thing but it IS very very handy. Warden’s can also invoke 5 second mezzes on “the boot” (25%) and Boar’s rush (on crits)… again, not sustainable helpful to continuously. Try on mobs that a “rolling lockdown” is being attempted on.
- Runekeepers: Shocking touch and vivid imagery. these mezzes are not long (in fact their duration is subject to randomness) but in a tough spot they can help out.. You cannot do wrong by upsetting a mobs flow of combat with any sort of mez. Know’em. Use’em. Love’em.
- Champs: Ok, so most of you guys do use this a lot but just a gentle reminder: Sound the attack/horn of gondor and the crafted long cooldown horn stuns. Use the sound the attack and horn of gondor at every opportunity if their is a stunnable mob or mob around. Stuns are win.
- Captains: Routing cry when traited stuns, being a defeat response it won’t always be ready when you need it and it won’t always be the optimal choice but if you’ve traited for it, don’t forget about it.
- Minstrels: Hey, you’ve got a fear, and a mez for the dead (potentially sustainable if prepared for it). You also have a stun on piercing cry critical if you have unrelenting slotted. If you get a mob on you, your first reaction should be trying to fear it then use song of soothing be an independent minstrel and use your CC to help yourself out, that’s what it’s there for.
See Goldenstar’s post on Minstrel Crowd Control. - Burglars: Everyone knows about the burglar’s CC skill, Riddle (which is especially useful on “the dead” since a Loremaster’s capabilities on the dead are severely limited with Blinding Flash having no effect). Burgs also have a few other nice tricks such as Startling Twist (a good long stun) and Confound (a 2-target delayed Mez) as well as some conjunction stuns and more mezzes from gambles if appropriately equipped. And don’t forget your Stun Dust!
Closing thoughts:
Everyone has CC, don’t forget to use it if and when needed. You should neither overdo it either nor should you fear running without pure CC. Remember, that which is loot-able can no longer harm you. Nothing beats purely eliminating the opposition, but remembering all the CC skills available and mastering the technique of a “rolling lockdown” will help speed up the game-play and keep things interesting.
July 22, 2010 at 8:21 am
Hey, what about the burgs? Their CC is about as quintessential as the loremasters. Deserves a mention, IMO. They just don’t have the noticable effects (flash, crash, boom) like the LMs.
A note on “Ents go to war”: Yes, it is an AoE stun und thus valuable. Alas, it requires slotting a legendary trait, and depending on situation, a loremaster may decide not to slot it. Of course, if it is slotted, it should be used that way.
July 22, 2010 at 9:23 am
Okay, I learned something new today. I’d always assumed that quick traps were the only crafted traps placeable in combat. However, I tested this out, and it looks like tripwires (the ones that have a chance of starting a fellowship maneuver) are the only ones that need to be placed before combat. I’ve always been a fan of creatively used hunter CC (even though I’ve never really traited for it), so this is useful information. Thanks!
July 22, 2010 at 10:28 am
Another thing to note about Warden’s CC is Ambush. I often will start a pull by Ambushing a mob which stuns them for something like 5 seconds and we can all wail on him for those seconds with no reprisals. Very effective and always works.
July 22, 2010 at 10:31 am
/agreed with Belamanth, the Burg needs some love
Rolling lockdown is a great suggestion. When I’m on my LM and there’s a Champ with me (or two of us on Champs!), I love rotating our stuns in large pulls with Sound the Attack and Ents, what a difference it makes when mutliple mobs are locked down for that amount of time!
You mention mezzes being 30s – 1 min, I can’t think of a mez that last longer than 30s..??..
July 22, 2010 at 10:55 am
Burg’s have a gamble from provoking from stealth as well as (pls correct me if i’m wrong as i’m at work and can’t log to 2x check) from mischievous glee. the gamble-based mez can last 1 full minute at it’s highest tier.
July 22, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Correct, the “disabling gamble”, a mez, can be applied by both provoke from stealth and glee. Top tier is 1 minute. There is also a trait in the mischief maker line that I believe adds a 5 second stun to the start of Riddle so it appears that the mob has been riddled for 35 seconds.
I also want to note the usefulness of stuns or fears in getting or keeping mobs out of the main pack AOE to allow the mezzer to lock a mob down, particularly after the fight has progressed past the initial pull.
July 22, 2010 at 1:38 pm
thanks! I figured I was missing something…..
July 22, 2010 at 11:00 am
Also, I didn’t specifically mention burg because I don’t feel that their CC is forgotten or underused. Much in the same way I didn’t specifically mention blinding flash, light of the rising dawn, test of will, herb lore, cracked earth, etc. from LMs.
July 22, 2010 at 11:12 am
It’s unfortunate that you listed seven of eight classes’ abilities as crowd-control “alternatives” when the Burglar is the quintessential “alternative” in all respects. They are not the primary go-tos for any role, and their unorthodox capabilities overlooked.
Their omission from this article is a sad but strangely affirming testament to what I think is an increasingly afterthought class.
On the bright side, the less people play burglars, the less competition there will be in group and raid space for what is ostensibly considered to be a fifth-wheel class.
July 22, 2010 at 11:23 am
Don’t for get Minstrel’s Song of Distraction. It must be used before entering combat, but it can really help with nasty pulls or avoiding certain mobs. Can anyone say Fil Gashen?
July 22, 2010 at 11:33 am
Just want to stress again that the last section with a list of CC skills is by no means meant to be complete. It is a list of skills that, in my own personal experience, are not used nearly enough. I see song of distraction used a ton (and it’s also covered very very well in Goldenstar’s Minstrel CC post). I see all of burgs CC being used very well (as, burglars, though few in number tend to be very shrewd and well played). I’m constantly seeing riddles going up (often in a “rolling lockdown” methodology) and everyone it keeping the starting twist long stun on CD, I even see confound being used in opportune spots all the time. Perhaps what we have here is a flaw introduced by my own very solid experiences with burgs. But just to stress one last time, EXCLUSION IS NOT MEANT TO BE A SLIGHT BUT RATHER A COMPLIMENT.
July 22, 2010 at 12:06 pm
ok now that I’m done defending the way I choose to write it… when I get home I’ll see if I can get some edits in and add burglar and guardian material just to be absolutely complete.
Thanks all for calling me out on it!
July 22, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Thanks for the great topic. Alternative methods for anything is always welcome for folks like me who care less about the time it takes to do something and more about the fun in getting there.
Speaking for one burglar, namely myself, we are a defensive bunch because we feel less and less useful in the newer content, yet we love our class and want the world to know just how cool the burglar can be.
July 22, 2010 at 3:23 pm
If it makes you feel any better, I have a 65 burglar that I play and love and a big reason that burgs don’t get a lot of love (particularly in raids) at the moment is that there is a bug that is causing some of their debuffs not to work properly on anything stronger than a normal mob. I’d have to look up the thread on the officials to get you the exact details….. But that aside, burg is a strong class and I’m both hoping and imagining that once that bug is fixed, burgs will be sought after once more.
July 22, 2010 at 4:42 pm
As promised, a section detailing a bit of Burg CC has been added. I do still want to stress that the listings, even now with Burglar added, are not meant as a complete list of CC but rather CC that is less thought of, I will not be adding anymore to the LM listing as it is all heavilly used and well known.
I hope this guide and discussion has been of some help and use to folks, I’m looking forward to writing more articles of this nature in the coming weeks.
July 24, 2010 at 7:14 pm
Another option if you don’t have a “CC” class is effective tanking away from the group. I do this quite a bit on my Warden but have also done it on my Captain where you just keep the mob away from everyone else while they go do whatever. Sure it requires attention, but it can be a very safe and effective method.
July 24, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Definitely, Doc. As can be kiting. How I forgot those in this.. I know not. may have to write a part 2.
July 25, 2010 at 11:32 am
Yeah, I always forget about kiting too
I tend to think of it as a last resort but it can be effective.